Must a vernier caliper and a rule be calibrated according to ISO 9001?

J

John Nabors - 2009

#31
Oops - forgot about the OP's other question about the CNC welder..

I'm a big fan of periodic volumetric testing ("ballbar testing") of CNC equipment. Most CNC's nowadays have software that allow a volumetric test to feed backlash and lead error compensation into the control to effectively 'rejuvenate' the CNC from error due to wear in the lead screws and slideways. I certainly wouldn't think of this as a calibration system requirement, but it's a nice tool for preventing errors before they happen as opposed to detecting them and reacting to them after the fact.

One quick and dirty way to see if you need backlash compensation: in each axis, drive the CNC in one direction to various points in its travel. Place the measuring point of a test indicator on some part of the driven component (spindle, welding head, etc.) so that the indicator is secured on a magnetic base or by other means to the table of the machine. Move the machine in the opposite direction and compare the results from the indicator to the distance the machine 'thinks' it has moved. If there is a discrepancy between the two, you need backlash compensation.

Kind Regards -John
 
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J

John Nabors - 2009

#33
Re: Must a vernier caliper and a rule be calibrated?

If you know that your device is adequate to the task (which is often the case with tape measures) you shouldn't have to be concerned about calibration, even in the broadest sense of the term.
I must kindly and respectfully disagree. I don't know anything until I verify it.

I'll borrow one of Marc's signature lines: "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions!"

Hope Marc won't put out a hit out on this poor old river rat for borrowing his quote..

Kind regards -John
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#35
Even if a gage has no moving parts whatsoever (such as a 6"/15cm steel rule), usage results in some wear, possibly infinitesimal, but wear nonetheless.
Excellent point! Physical fact - two things always happen with a contact measurement gage: the measured parts wears the gage, and the gage wears the measured part - even if it is a molecule at a time.

If a steel rule is not in contact with the part (non-contact steel rule measurement?), then you are assured of parallax error, at least to some degree.
 
J

JaneB

#36
Re: Must a vernier caliper and a rule be calibrated?

It's a question about whether it's worthwhile to worry about whether a device is measuring "correctly." If you know that your device is adequate to the task (which is often the case with tape measures) you shouldn't have to be concerned about calibration, even in the broadest sense of the term.

For the types of tasks I'm referring to, R&R shouldn't be necessary either. We should make sure that operators know how to read a tape measure and then let them do it.
Yes, that's what I was getting at. I quite agree Bob, that if the measurement needs to be accurate, then one should calibrate. But there are occasions when it isn't required.

An example: at a business involving valuing property, they used measuring wheels/long tape measures just to roughly check the land dimensions were about what was on the certificate of title. There was no requirement to be accurate - we are not talking surveying or exactitude. Frankly, if it was within 1/2 - 1 metre or so, that was good enough; presumably if it was a lot outside that (never yet happened), they'd query further.

Yet one little self-important and rigid auditor attempted to insist that these measures should be calibrated! Quite ridiculous. (And no, he didn't return. And the replacement - competent - auditor agreed with excluding it from scope.)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#37
Re: Must a vernier caliper and a rule be calibrated?

I must kindly and respectfully disagree. I don't know anything until I verify it.

I'll borrow one of Marc's signature lines: "One test is worth a thousand expert opinions!"

Hope Marc won't put out a hit out on this poor old river rat for borrowing his quote..

Kind regards -John
I'll borrow one from Peter Drucker (iirc): There's nothing so wasteful as doing something well that doesn't need to be done at all.

Managers should be allowed a bit of latitude in discerning these things and shouldn't be bound by platitudes and obsessive-compulsive behaviors. "One test" isn't necessary to tell whether it's raining or not.
 
#38
Re: Must a vernier caliper and a rule be calibrated?

An example: at a business involving valuing property, they used measuring wheels/long tape measures just to roughly check the land dimensions were about what was on the certificate of title. There was no requirement to be accurate - we are not talking surveying or exactitude. Frankly, if it was within 1/2 - 1 metre or so, that was good enough; presumably if it was a lot outside that (never yet happened), they'd query further.

Yet one little self-important and rigid auditor attempted to insist that these measures should be calibrated! Quite ridiculous. (And no, he didn't return. And the replacement - competent - auditor agreed with excluding it from scope.)
I was reminded of this Jane. A globally known parcel carrier was written an NC for not having the delivery van maintenance techs 'feeler' gauges (used in engine maintenance) calibrated!!
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#39
Re: Must a vernier caliper and a rule be calibrated?

... roughly check ...no requirement to be accurate ...good enough
Great criteria for Quality Level TCE. More support to add it to the standard. The committee really missed this one.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#40
Re: Must a vernier caliper and a rule be calibrated?

Great criteria for Quality Level TCE. More support to add it to the standard. The committee really missed this one.
I'm assuming that this is sarcasm, so please correct me if I'm wrong. If you feel that "the committee" should be an omniscient body that can account for every contingency in the day-to-day operation of a business, or that the committee's wisdom should always prevail, you're probably right. Some of us think that our experience in the world should count for something, however, and that we shouldn't have to run to the book every time a decision is made.
 
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