My Christmas gift

Ettore

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
Good morning

This his the gift for have been worked hard for twenty year in quality assurance without no support of the direction.
(in the ten years before was really different.)

From one of the new manager of one of many plant of production.

The manager was in his office with another I suppose they was speaking about the christmas lunch.

Asking him if he had any suggestions or something to say about the documents of Quality system that I discussed whit him in the past (APQP documents: Old FMEA never finished, Quality system procedures, many incompleted action plans , SPC never applyed in the galvanizing line and others ) The manager answer:
"I have haven't again time for this Kind of Burocracy".But, I'm sure this is the point of view of All here.
So, I have decided to looking for another opportunity.
I'm looking around.
I hope somewhere somebody believe like me in TQM.
Bye
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Do not be frustated...
Job is job and it is more and more difficult to find new opportunity in the current market.
Try to make him understand that QMS works to serve customer and improve processes and it is not a burden.:bigwave:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#3
Good day Ettore,

I have been confronted with almost the exact same words from the president of a company I worked for, many years ago. That company eventually did register to ISO 9001, but it was for the sake of turning it over to his son and daughter; he never did have interest in systems on his own.

It is perfectly okay to look for a new post, people like us often find ourselves moving around. I agree with qusys, to be patient. From my personal experience I will add my observation the fundamentals of these struggles lie in human temperament and that temperament is shared among many. I am presently in my 7th quality management system, and some things never seem to change. Dynamics in the workplace, including devotion to excellence and the open approach of TQM are subject to the leadership's philosophy, education, psyche, cultural upbringing, and the socioeconomic forces that drive employee readiness to work in a TQM system.

Progress can be initiated and interrupted simply via upper management turnover. Of course there is little-to-nothing most of us can do about that.

So: my heartfelt advice is to do the best you can, but appreciate that our business world is like the environment, to which we adapt if we can't change it.
:2cents:
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Good morning

This his the gift for have been worked hard for twenty year in quality assurance without no support of the direction.
(in the ten years before was really different.)

From one of the new manager of one of many plant of production.

The manager was in his office with another I suppose they was speaking about the christmas lunch.

Asking him if he had any suggestions or something to say about the documents of Quality system that I discussed whit him in the past (APQP documents: Old FMEA never finished, Quality system procedures, many incompleted action plans , SPC never applyed in the galvanizing line and others ) The manager answer:
"I have haven't again time for this Kind of Burocracy".But, I'm sure this is the point of view of All here.
So, I have decided to looking for another opportunity.
I'm looking around.
I hope somewhere somebody believe like me in TQM.
Bye
Yep. Sometimes we have to get hit in the head or kicked in the stomach before we realize the managers where we work think we are an unnecessary burden. No matter when that happens, we have two choices:

  1. Start looking in earnest for a new job while we are still getting a paycheck.
  2. Try to educate the managers about the value of quality in general and us in particular.
For most of us, (1) is the smartest course to follow. It takes a special skill set and a lot of intestinal fortitude to follow path (2) successfully. Even then, the psychology of most bosses who have the "quality is a burden" mindset is often "FIRE THE TROUBLEMAKER!"

Over the years, I've written a lot about getting, keeping, or changing jobs. Make no mistake - these last three years have been the toughest for job seekers in my lifetime [and I'm pretty old - with nearly 50 years in the job market.]

I started a thread, Wes Bucey Job Threads, which is essentially an index to the threads I consider most pertinent for a job seeker. In that thread, I raise the topic of a Skills Assessment Matrix (SAM.) I discuss SAM more fully in More ugly truths (how to cope)

Whether you are unemployed, or suspect or know you are on the short list to be unemployed, or are just dissatisfied with your current situation, you owe it to yourself to read through the threads suggested here. If you have questions, ask them in those threads or start a new one.

I am sympathetic to your situation, but I am a firm believer in the adage:
"Light a candle rather than curse the dark!"
In other words, don't just bemoan your fate, do SOMETHING to change it.
 

gpainter

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
I think that we all feel your frustration. Stick to your guns. Good Luck and use this as a stepping stone to better yourself. As, you look do not forget to interview the company. Most do not like it but if you want to find a match? I have often thought someone should start a match maker for jobs!
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#6
I think that we all feel your frustration. Stick to your guns. Good Luck and use this as a stepping stone to better yourself. As, you look do not forget to interview the company. Most do not like it but if you want to find a match? I have often thought someone should start a match maker for jobs!
Agree, but let us remember that it is very difficult to put himself in game at a certain age. Usually company prefers a young with recent degree or PH/master rather than experienced workers , this happens in whatever job or sector:bigwave:
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#7
Agree, but let us remember that it is very difficult to put himself in game at a certain age. Usually company prefers a young with recent degree or PH/master rather than experienced workers , this happens in whatever job or sector:bigwave:
Agreed, but we have addressed the issue of offsetting ageism when job hunting. Just because it is difficult doesn't mean it is impossible.
 
K

kgott

#8
Etrtore; I understand your frustration. Many years ago when TQM was the rage I learned as much about it as I could I read books, articles anything I could to learn enough about it to be good at it. I found that all it did to me was to make me very angry that no organisation wanted anything to do with it. Eventually I had to just turn my back on it and I tried to forget it.

Over the years I have learned some things and I’ll share a couple of them with you.

Ever since the industrial revolution when people started to work for others in an organised way, organisations have been managed the same way. 450 years ago there weren’t too many models around on which to base emerging industrial organisations. There was the military, the church and the government and there isn’t much difference between any of them so this same structure was used for these newly emerging business organisations.

TQM is all about workers being organised into self managed teams, real teams not mobs labelled teams, and being responsible for themselves and the work they do. This structure is in direct conflict with the traditional hierarchal structure.

Managements all over the world will protect this traditional structure for a multitude of reasons, saying things like:
· Its worked for 450 years
· It’s used all over the world
· It has stood the test of time.

Yours and my response to this is that it is not that these claims are true, but that these things are said because they all worship at the same alter. You, I and many others on this forum know that just because this traditional organisational structure may have been appropriate for the past does not necessarily mean that it will be appropriate for the future.

Think of the risks that any manager takes if they tried to change 450 years of history? Think of the advantages of this hierarchal structure for managers. It gives them the trappings of office, it gives them power, it gives them privileges such as undercover parking when the rest of the workforce has to park in the hot sun etc etc. These managers will always take the view that what ever organisational structure benefits them; is also the best organisational structure for transforming customer inputs into customer outputs and they will defend this to the death if necessary.

I strongly recommend that you read a book called:

“Superior Teams - What they are and How to Develop Them” by Dennis C Kinlaw.

I read this book in the 1990’s so the academics among us would gasp in horror that I recommend a book older than 5 years. This book is very illuminating and you will feel much better for reading it. These days everyone’s in a “team” whether they think so or not. Kinlaw tells you how to grow a real team, a team in which there is at least, to a recognisable degree, feelings of inclusion, commitment, loyalty, pride; and trust, in the team. Compare that with what exists now.

What Kinlaw is talking about is TQM with another name which is good because; after all how could a wonderful concept like TQM ever get off the ground with such a horrible name like Total Quality Management, what the hell does that phrase mean???? Most people on this forum struggle with the word quality in ISO 9001.

I would also strongly recommend that you research the Semco company from Brazil. They are a very odd company. They tend to do the opposite to what most company’s do. For instance; staff set their own salaries, they do reverse evaluation, staff decide when they start and finish work etc etc, In Semco the staff can cancel an entire project just on a show of hands.

Hope this helps – have a good chrissy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#9
Agree, but let us remember that it is very difficult to put himself in game at a certain age. Usually company prefers a young with recent degree or PH/master rather than experienced workers , this happens in whatever job or sector:bigwave:
Actually, I think this situation is of lesser impact than it used to be. I sense a certain frustration with some management on younger, less experienced workers. The cost of "learning on the job" - especially under less and less resources to teach new hires - is having a positive impact on older workers. The down side is older people not willing to keep up with technology making a bad name for those that do, and the perception of health care cost issues and their impact on older workers.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#10
Asking him if he had any suggestions or something to say about the documents of Quality system that I discussed whit him in the past (APQP documents: Old FMEA never finished, Quality system procedures, many incompleted action plans , SPC never applied in the galvanizing line and others ) The manager answer:
"I have haven't again time for this Kind of Bureaucracy ".
Yes, it is easy to blow off the quality tools as bureaucracy, and still personally blame the Quality people for scrap and returns...as if they actually made the parts themselves. Point, blame, and cover your incompetent butt....and go play golf management style.
 
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