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My company wants me to implement ISO 17025 in our laboratory

M

Mir11

#1
I am Assistant to QMR, with good knowledge of ISO 9001 and 14001. Now the problem is that my company want me to implement ISO 17025 in our lab.

I have gone through its standards, found many similar clauses in 17025 as in 9001.

Problem is I couldnt understand the Measurment of Uncertainty. Can anyone explain me or share procedure/guidelines? Our consultant is no good either.

Q2) When is UoM applicable? (our is testing laboratory, trying to get accreditation for ASTM standard tests)

Q3) Is it ok to get acrdtn. from IAS? We are located in Middle East.


Would really appreciate if someone can answer my very vague questions.

Regards,
Mir.
 
P

primerizo

#2
You can get an simple paper on: www_metrycal_com/Main/Estimacion_de_la_incertidumbre_de_medida.pdf
But, you need to translate into english, you can use the google translator... :>)
Hope it could be useful!
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
I am Assistant to QMR, with good knowledge of ISO 9001 and 14001. Now the problem is that my company want me to implement ISO 17025 in our lab.

I have gone through its standards, found many similar clauses in 17025 as in 9001.

Problem is I couldnt understand the Measurment of Uncertainty. Can anyone explain me or share procedure/guidelines? Our consultant is no good either.

Q2) When is UoM applicable? (our is testing laboratory, trying to get accreditation for ASTM standard tests)

Q3) Is it ok to get acrdtn. from IAS? We are located in Middle East.


Would really appreciate if someone can answer my very vague questions.

Regards,
Mir.
First, get training in uncertainty. That is crucial.

For applicability, it depends on the ASTM standard. If the precision and bias (P&B) statement gives information such as some number of labs with results and so forth, then the P&B is acceptable. If the P&B says something like information will be added next revision, then you must be able to do uncertainty.

As for IAS in the Middle East, yes, perfectly fine, IAS accredits many labs in the Middle East and North Africa.

As a matter of ethics, I must reveal I am senior technical Staff and a Program Manager at IAS, and have been in quite a few labs in the Middle East and North Africa. As a result, I can advise here, but will be required ethically to NOT be on the assessment team, or provide direct advice other than this forum.

Hope this helps.
 
M

Mir11

#4
Great! Thanks for the reply.
We are trying to get Accreditation for 6 tests (all as per ASTM standards).

One of the ASTM standard method is C109; and it does gives precision and bias statement (refers to a table). Thus uncertainty not required here, i feel.

Secondly "UoM" seems too technical thing, definitely need to get some training. But,then again: should I? I am only an ISO Coordinator, not directly involved in lab technicalities. Will I be able to understand or is it better to "include" alongside me, from someone in lab, to learn uncertainty. (another very illogical question, but i need to break into this somehow..hope you understand)
 
#5
Great! Thanks for the reply.
We are trying to get Accreditation for 6 tests (all as per ASTM standards).

One of the ASTM standard method is C109; and it does gives precision and bias statement (refers to a table). Thus uncertainty not required here, i feel.

Secondly "UoM" seems too technical thing, definitely need to get some training. But,then again: should I? I am only an ISO Coordinator, not directly involved in lab technicalities. Will I be able to understand or is it better to "include" alongside me, from someone in lab, to learn uncertainty. (another very illogical question, but i need to break into this somehow..hope you understand)

You've stated that "my company want me to implement ISO 17025 in our lab". It appears to me that the responsibility is clear; if you are asked in the future about uncertainty (which is a critical defining portion of ISO 17025), it would seem strange if you didn't know anything about it.

I'm thinking that the ideal scenario would be training for you and at least one lab tech. Another question; when you perform internal audits, will there be anyone who will have the necessary knowledge to say if the uncertainties are being determined correctly? And no, your lab tech cannot audit his own work....

Uncertainty can be an elusive part of metrology for many; if you are able to receive training, by all means take the opportunity!
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Mikishots is exactly on target. You and at least one other tech should receive training. This is important even if the precision and bias statements in the ASTM is complete, as there is also the process control and improvement capability that comes with understanding uncertainty, plus the internal audit as previously pointed out.

Training can be in a classroom, or can also be done by distance learning such as on-line, from organizations such as Quametec, Workplace Training, Integrated Sciences Group, and there are others also.

Hope this helps.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
One other point about uncertainty, you actually have dealt with uncertainty all your life. When you drive, how certain is it that the car will not be hit with a rock from a car in front of you, or that you will not be in a crash? If you have children, how certain is it that they will walk all the way across the floor without falling on the first try? We learn to compensate normally.

Uncertainty of measurement accepts that there is error in any measurement you make, and then describes it mathematically. That is the only real difference.

It is not something to be anxious about, simply to be understood, and used as a tool.

Hope this helps.
 
M

Mir11

#8
well thank you Mikishots and Hershal, i'll get back to you as soon as i'll need advice/help from u (which i probably will..soon)

Hope to stay connected and receive whatever knowledge possible from you guys.

Regards,
Mir.

First things first: Arrange training! :)
 
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