NC from TS16949 stage 2 audit - Internal Auditing - Auditor did not record evidence

Coury Ferguson

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#11
Re: NC from TS16949 stage 2 audit -internal auditing - thoughts?

<snip>This puts us in compromising situation if we protest the one he did write up....he'll remember next time he's here..
The appeals processes is there to challenge an auditor and their findings. If they take it personally, than I would report it to their Boss.

If you don't agree with it, challenge it.
 
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Boscoeee

#12
Re: NC from TS16949 stage 2 audit -internal auditing - thoughts?

Yeah, this is a difficult situation because there were SEVERAL other things the were N/C that were noted that weren't written up. He could have picked any solid one.
This puts us in compromising situation if we protest the one he did write up....he'll remember next time he's here..
We'll probably just write up the corrective action, etc and let it go....even though I don't like it!
Another Thought, if you are going to use checklists how do you determine whether or not the item should have been checked or not?

Do you leave it up to the Internal Auditor?

While perhaps it is not specifically required, if you are going to use a checklist, I believe it is important to know what was checked and what was not!
 
#13
Re: NC from TS16949 stage 2 audit -internal auditing - thoughts?

Yeah, this is a difficult situation because there were SEVERAL other things the were N/C that were noted that weren't written up. He could have picked any solid one.
This puts us in compromising situation if we protest the one he did write up....he'll remember next time he's here..
We'll probably just write up the corrective action, etc and let it go....even though I don't like it!
Not at all! If you have an auditor who goes around with a 'chip on their shoulder' regarding contested findings - and you see evidence of that in your next audit - have them removed from the audit! Check out the requirements of ISO 19011 - open minded is in there, I believe.......

Please don't roll with this type of thing. As a rep for a CB, it's in our (collective) interests not to have clients 'put up' with auditors' bias and lack of objectivity. Indeed, if it's one of our auditors, I really want to know who it is........

By 'letting it go' you are participating in a slow but inexorable slide of credibility of the whole certification process, which musn't be allowed to happen.
 

Marc

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#14
Re: NC from TS16949 stage 2 audit -internal auditing - thoughts?

Another Thought, if you are going to use checklists how do you determine whether or not the item should have been checked or not?
To me this is the key. If one uses a checklist, unless there is a guideline which can be cited, my expectation is every item would have some type of information entered, even if it's just an 'NA' (i.e.: Not Applicable). I have NEVER left a checklist item blank unless I could cite a procedure or other guidance document telling me what to do, if not the rational as well.

As to whether it is technically a nonconformance or not is debatable, but if no one could explain to me why some items were addressed and some were not I would have a 'bad' feeling about the system and/or the auditor. However, if the auditor can explain why some things are filled out and why s/he didn't fill out other things, I'd be a happy auditor.
 

Howard Atkins

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#15
Re: NC from TS16949 stage 2 audit -internal auditing - thoughts?

To me this is the key. If one uses a checklist, unless there is a guideline which can be cited, my expectation is every item would have some type of information entered, even if it's just an 'NA' (i.e.: Not Applicable). I have NEVER left a checklist item blank unless I could cite a procedure or other guidance document telling me what to do, if not the rational as well.

.
Slightly :topic:
All checklists, forms etc are in fact Work Instructions. Not completing all fields with at least a N/A shows that the instruction was not completed.
 

Marc

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#16
Re: NC from TS16949 stage 2 audit -internal auditing - thoughts?

Yup - That has always been my way of looking at it. *Unless there is a document which addresses the specific fields in a form and which tells when a field, and which field(s), may be left blank (such as a form that has multiple uses).
 
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