NCA 3800 quality system vs. ISO 9001 - Commonalities

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#1
After checking through attachments and previous queries, I haven't found what I was hoping I'd find. So, once again I am asking for assistance of the Coverian Community.:thanx:

1) does anyone here have some working knowledge/experience with NCA 3800 quality system certification?
2) does anyone have a cross reference matrix that shows the relationship of the clauses of NCA 3800 to ISO 9001 (2000 or 2008).

I would like to not reinvent the wheel myself if possible as I have too many irons in the fire, and not enough fire to keep them hot, unfortunately, in this case, it seems as though I have some people who either think I am a miracle worker, or have other reasons for insisting on a nearly impossible schedule.

Thanks for anything you can share!
 
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SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#3
Re: Nca 3800/iso 9001

Thanks Coury, I have seen those, what I am hoping to find is just a simple matrix or table like comparison where it shows what ISO clause is comparable to the NCA 385X requirements. But, I do appreciate the work you put into it!:bigwave:
 
H

Hemi999

#4
The ISO 9001 and NCA 3800 are two totally different programs. While they have similar sections but the philosophy is different. ISO is a process based program and does not stress the quality of the product but the compliance to the process, while NCA 3800 is more directed at the compliance of the product to a national recognized standard such as ASTM.
Because of this most people have trouble making one manual to comply with both programs.
 
M

MattBat

#5
Steel Maiden, I am in a similar position as you. I need to provide information to the management regarding the necessary steps/time/money involved in getting a Material Organisation certificate.

I have read all the information google can drag up, but it seems like there is no shortcut to buying ASME BPVC Section III Subsection NCA and reading it. My copy is coming in the next few days:truce:.

From my experience, a QMS following ISO 9001 can be too "weak" in the details. I have heard that it is especially these details that are audited.

Without knowing the details of NCA 3800, it might be an option to "modularize" the QMS in the sense that the NCA3800 Quality Manual might say, "This Chapter replaces Chapters 1 and 2 of the standard Quality Manual...". Some of the detailed aspects can be addressed in a project-specific quality plan. However, this can only work when your QMS already has a similar structure/philosophy. Otherwise you (and I for that matter) have to reinvent the wheel.

Sorry for not having better news.

Cheers!
 
H

Hemi999

#6
Mattbat;

If I read your position correctly you are in Europe.
1. As a material supplier purchasing from manufacturer in Europe the ASME certificate gave me knowledge that you understand the requirements for the product you were supplying. A good marketing tool for your sales people.

Another auditor and I have worked extensively in Europe and could give you a lot of help by E Mail without extensive on site visits.

The real question is what is your product and market.

Jim Dailey
[email protected]
Weller Energy Services, Corp
Wellerenergy.com
 
M

MattBat

#7
Hi Jim, thanks for your contact information, I will contact you directly.

I was born, raised and (partially) educated in New Jersey.

And, yes, I currently work for a butt-welding fittings manufacturer in its headquarters in Austria. Our main customers are oil/gas upstream and downstream, conventional power plant, chemical plants and of course nuclear power plants.
We have been active in the nuclear power plant market for over 30 years (experience with ASME, French RCC-M, German KWU, Chinese). Until now we have entered the ASME world as a qualified Material Organisation through a Canadian partner and always project specific. We are considering attaining the ASME accredited Material Organisation with all the options (utilization of unqualified source material, approval and control of suppliers, etc.).

I realize that the amount of work needed to "adapt" the standard QM-System of course depends on the quality (no pun intended) and flexibility of the system.
The problem we are facing is figuring out a way to integrate the often conflicting 'philosophical' and 'tangible' aspects of the various codes. For example NCA 3852 requires that the personnel who leads audits be qualified, amongst other things, through audit participation and written examination, while ISO 9001 simply requires that the auditor be independent and impartial. The chinese nuclear codes are now starting a trend that each project/order requires it's own series of internal audits and management reviews specifically addressing aspects of their project.

Do any of you have experience working with a "modular" QM-System?
By "modular" I mean that for each process there are many different and interchangable modules adapted to different needs. I think many production companies use a similar method for their production systems, but has anybody tried it for the whole management system, including aspects like internal audits, management review, control of non-conforming material, or control of documents and records?

Cheers,
Matthias Batlogg
Erne Fittings GmbH
 
H

Hemi999

#8
Matthias;

I am aware of your company but only by name.

Operating in nuclear area it can be hard to use an ISO manual and incorporate the nuclear requirements. Most people have 2 manuals with one set of procedures to implement the manuals.

As for the qualification of auditors that is simple it is the knowledge of the auditor that can be hard to get.

I am not familiar with the modular concept.

As for qualifying the auditor and experience that can be accomplished with attending a training class that my friend puts on and then getting the qualification experience by participation.

My friend and I have done audits (internal and supplier) in Europe and would be happy to help in any way possible.

send me your E Mail address.
Jim Dailey
 
T

TamTom

#9
Hello,

since the tread is a little bit older, may I ask what is you actual status now??

Have you integrated the 2 systems, or do you have an separate manual?

Is there any change to get more information about the NCA 3800, without need to buy the whole ASME Sec. III?

I would appreciate if you could tell me a little bit of your experiences.

Regards,

TamTom
 
H

Hemi999

#10
Start by getting a copy of NCA 3800. Use it to develop your manual and how you implement your program. Later you will be required to have copies of some selected subsection in your library but not the entire Boiler & Pressure Code depending on the scope or your quality program.
:)
 
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