NCR for Customer not updating their drawings

inspector625

Involved In Discussions
#1
Hello Everyone,

I know this may sound like a stupid question but can I send a NCR to our Customer for not updating their drawings to include changes that they expect us to follow? They requested the change back in April of 2014. I have sent multiple emails requesting the updated drawings and don't even receive a response. Any suggestions would be helpful.:frust:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: NCR for Customer

Hi Lindsay...
Its not stupid. We see such happen everywhere.
Do not go the NCR way. It will most likely go to the trash at your customer.
Instead, stop order processing for want of updated specifications, and add a line about your lead time for delivery after receipt of clear and complete specifications.
Let the communications flow between your sales leader and customer's purchase head.
 
P

PaulJSmith

#3
Re: NCR for Customer

I agree with Somashekar. Advise your customer that you have stopped work on their order and cannot continue until you have ALL the information required to meet the terms of their Purchase Order. You could guess (or maybe even know what they want) to build it, but you have nothing to check it against without accurate drawings. Note to them that this will significantly delay delivery if not resolved immediately.

This almost always works like a miracle.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: NCR for Customer

Do not go the NCR way.
I agree. I would not do anything that would negatively effect customer satisfaction.

I would consider suggesting some statements that the sales people could use with the customer such as "our internal auditor is a stickler" and "if we could at least get the differences in configuration from the print stated on the PO..." type of suggestions that demonstrate an easy solution.

Last minute thought: from a QC point of view, look at the customer quality requirements and see if there is a deviation or drawing change request process.
 
Last edited:

JLyt207

Involved In Discussions
#5
Re: NCR for Customer

I agree with the others. If you do not have the data you need you should not proceed. But now this is where answering these questions is tough. There is very little info in your post on your situation. Let me ask a few questions just to get it out of the way. Are you sure you don't have the data? When you said they told you what changes were required, how was that info given to you? Just an email or verbal? Or an official change notice? We have had customers give us prints and with it was a TCO (tool change order), that described, in detail, the changes. The drawings plus the TCO was the entire package.

I also wonder about the lack of response to the email requests. I may be over-thinking your post but are you sure it is a valid address? You said you had no response. Was it no response at all or have you had other emails from this person? In 10 months was there any follow up by phone?

But back to your original question, if they don't respond to a request for a print I doubt they would take the NCR seriously.
 

inspector625

Involved In Discussions
#6
Re: NCR for Customer

Thank you everyone, always so helpful, dont know what i would do with out the support you guys provide. JLyt207: The information was given to us by email back in April of last year. The difference is going from a 4 hour bake, to a 8 hour bake. I realize this is not a huge deal, however in order for our travelers, our production drawings, our ERP system and even my PPAPs to match up, their drawing needs to be revised. I email back and forth with the quality/engineering reps almost daily however in regards to the drawing changes I get absolutely no reply. This customer is our biggest customer and you are all right, I dont want to upset them. In the same though, when Im issued a NC from them I am given timelines that I am made to follow. I am just looking for a way to get through to them the importance of revising their drawings for our records. Thanks again everyone!! Hope this ramble makes sense.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#7
Re: NCR for Customer

Thank you everyone, always so helpful, dont know what i would do with out the support you guys provide. JLyt207: The information was given to us by email back in April of last year. The difference is going from a 4 hour bake, to a 8 hour bake. I realize this is not a huge deal, however in order for our travelers, our production drawings, our ERP system and even my PPAPs to match up, their drawing needs to be revised. I email back and forth with the quality/engineering reps almost daily however in regards to the drawing changes I get absolutely no reply. This customer is our biggest customer and you are all right, I dont want to upset them. In the same though, when Im issued a NC from them I am given timelines that I am made to follow. I am just looking for a way to get through to them the importance of revising their drawings for our records. Thanks again everyone!! Hope this ramble makes sense.

Revise it yourself with a "pencil" and send it to them pending a formal revision. Use it as an interim with notes that you are waiting for a final change. People these days are overburdened and I'll bet it is "stuck in drafting." Been there.

If you stop production, you'll just anger people.
 
P

PaulJSmith

#8
Re: NCR for Customer

Revise it yourself with a "pencil" and send it to them pending a formal revision. Use it as an interim with notes that you are waiting for a final change. People these days are overburdened and I'll bet it is "stuck in drafting." Been there.

If you stop production, you'll just anger people.
Potentially true. However, if you "Proceed-At-Risk" without customer approval, you could end up stuck with a quantity of product the customer can't or won't use.

If they are having daily communications about other topics, but refuse to answer a simple question regarding a drawing, there is clearly something more going on there. The potential to delay their delivery promises may jolt them into doing what they should have already done last year. Perhaps communications at a higher level would bear more fruit.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#9
Re: NCR for Customer

The information was given to us by email back in April of last year. ...SNIP.... I am just looking for a way to get through to them the importance of revising their drawings for our records.
Consider yourself lucky because the process change has been communicated to you in writing (email). Many customers make process/product/order changes and VERBALLY communicate with the suppliers, leaving no paper trail, so if and when the product hits the fan, no document leads to the right culprit.

If I were you, I would:

1. change any internally controlled documentation needed to define the baking process and update the bake time.
2. issue a revised sales order to the client with a CLEAR mention to the revised process; maybe even increasing the product pricing by a few cents to justify the additional energy and time you have to spend on processing the part. The most important thing is that you have a document showing that you changed the process based on the CUSTOMER input.

While you are totally justified to expect the customers to do their part in process control and revise the drawing some corporations are extremely slow in reacting.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Re: NCR for Customer

Revise it yourself with a "pencil" and send it to them pending a formal revision. Use it as an interim with notes that you are waiting for a final change. People these days are overburdened and I'll bet it is "stuck in drafting." Been there.

If you stop production, you'll just anger people.
The OP has taken the due time and made communication in order to resolve requirements related to product with the customer. Therefore when he professionally makes a review prior to commitment to supply product to the customer, and makes a customer communication about this to resolve., this does not equate to stop production, as the OP is well within his QMS boundries.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
A ISO/TS 16949 - Sharing Certification Audit Report (NCR's) with the Customer IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
T Do Customer Returns = NCR and CAR? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
Q NCR before the Product is delivered to the Customer? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
D Is an NCR required in this Customer Complaint scenario? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 6
K Customer NCR - How to respond to a non-applicable NCR? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7
M How NCR CAR and ECO Interact - Customer Rejection Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5
H NCR (Nonconformance Report) - External customer - Seeking Advice Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
S NCR No: 1 - 8.2.1 - Customer perception was not been conducted General Auditing Discussions 11
C NCR (Nonconformance System) Software Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7
K My question is, what/when is a nonconformity? Therefore what requires an NCR? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 9
L How to write a proper defect description in a NCR Nonconformance and Corrective Action 4
qualprod When to write up a nonconformance and require a NCR - We produce labels ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 14
B How to reply NCR on ineffectiveness of corrective action during IATF external audit? This is repeated issue whereby some mistake was done. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M Issuing NCR for improper method statement submissions Internal Auditing 10
A Scrap is NCR or not - What regulation ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 33
Q Interaction of Processes IOP NCR Process Maps, Process Mapping and Turtle Diagrams 7
W Surveillance report along side an NCR program Nonconformance and Corrective Action 2
A NCR, NCMR, CAPA, Deviations - Medical Device Distributor Nonconformance and Corrective Action 2
D Can an AS9100 auditor issue an NCR a month after the audit? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 6
K AS9100 - No NCR's or CA's during Stage 2 Audit AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
W IATF 16949 Clause 6.1.1 - My first Major NCR (Management Review) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 57
K NCR or CA? We're taking any issue we have and saying its a nonconformance Nonconformance and Corrective Action 11
S Re-validation NCR - In which cases re-validation of processes is required Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 6
Pancho United Airlines NCR Nonconformance and Corrective Action 43
Q Practical Way to raise NCR's in an Assembly Workshop ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
W NCR Performance KPI Monitoring in an Industry like Construction Nonconformance and Corrective Action 1
N Any comment, if a supplier raise an NCR to the Client? Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 5
W Auditor Remorse for not issuing an NCR AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
Q Criteria for not rising NCR's in 8.3 of ISO 9001:2008 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
R How do you perform verification of a NCR (Nonconformance)? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
N New to ISO 9001 - NCR for every defect? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
B Combining a CAR, an NCR, and an Accident Report ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 9
K Validity of Using NCR's to evaluate Performance Nonconformance and Corrective Action 7
P Differences between an NCR and CAR Internal Auditing 9
N NCR and CAPA in the FMCG (Fast Moving Consumer Goods) Industry Nonconformance and Corrective Action 1
K Nadcap (AC7107/7 C, paragraph 6.1.b) NCR - Machining Tensile Specimens AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 3
L How to track the NCR (Quality Notification, Services Notification) Nonconformance and Corrective Action 2
F AS9100 Management Review NCR help - Output of the MR is not Adequate AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
Q ECR (Engineering Change Request) or NCR (Nonconformance Report) in Fabrication? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 12
W Process Effectiveness NCR's (Nonconformance Reports) ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
R Internal Auditing Checklist - Major NCR because the Checklist was not Completed Internal Auditing 17
S Is an 8D Report and a NCR (Nonconformance Report) the same? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 10
N NCR (Nonconformance Report) Combined with Corrective Action Report? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 1
B Format for Discrepant Material Report (DMR) - Nonconformance Report (NCR) Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 1
C AS9100 8.3 Procedure for Non-Conforming Parts - When should an NCR be filled out? Nonconformance and Corrective Action 5
J What is the time limit for an auditor to respond to NCR's and submit audit report? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 7
C NCR (Nonconformance Report) Root Cause - Cause Code AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
Q How raise en ECO starting from a NC - ECO after NCR? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
Q Why ECOing if can use NCR's ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
Q Please recommend NCR / CAPA Software capable of embedding pictures Nonconformance and Corrective Action 12

Similar threads

Top Bottom