Need help purchasing a Digital Borematic gage (Mitutoyo was suggested)

S
#1
I'm not sure this is the correct place to post this question, but here goes...........

We have a customer that would like us to check their parts with a digital Borematic gage (Mitutoyo was suggested). From what I've been able to glean on Google, this gage is a bit expensive for us to purchase when we would only be using it for this part.

Can anyone advise an alternative gage or method for measuring a bore other than the Comtor gage?

Thanks,
Sue
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Al Rosen

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Sue said:
I'm not sure this is the correct place to post this question, but here goes...........

We have a customer that would like us to check their parts with a digital Borematic gage (Mitutoyo was suggested). From what I've been able to glean on Google, this gage is a bit expensive for us to purchase when we would only be using it for this part.

Can anyone advise an alternative gage or method for measuring a bore other than the Comtor gage?

Thanks,
Sue
you didn't mention the range or depth, but some suggestions:
  1. Try finding a used one on e-bay and use the internet to search for an auction or company closing.
  2. Try fowler, they may have a less expensive alternative or again use google to search on the internet using "digital bore gage".
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Another important factor is "how many pieces - per hour, day, week, etc.?"
Other factors which come into play:
  • nominal bore size and depth,
  • tolerances
  • access on the workpiece
If the number of pieces is small, you might consider farming the measurement out to a company with the proper instrument.

:topic: Are they asking you to use that particular gage so you can download the data readings directly to SPC software via wire? Interesting and clever if they are. If so, part of the scenario (possibly money saving) is uploading the hard data and SPC data directly to the customer [even in real time], eliminating paper copies tucked into the packing box - just use serialized barcoded label. If you can use the bore gage for other bores, too, it might justify the cost of a new one. (When life hands you lemons . . .)
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Is this a new requirement for an existing part? Or is it something that is coming out in APQP for a new part?

In either case, you may want to pass on the cost of the fixturing/gauging to the customer, either in whole or in part.

I have had some success in doing this in the past, especially when a customer comes up with a new requirement (not related to a detected failure in my process).

There are a number of ways to measure a bore, depending on what your customer needs and what you are capable of doing. If you would like to discuss with me further, feel free to PM me.
 
S
#5
Al, I haven't been able to find this gage on ebay - the range needed is 568-978. There was one with a larger range there however, so I will keep looking. Have added it to my "Favorites" :D

Ron, in a way this is a new requirement. We made a very similar part for this company for a number of years, but they recently made a design change. It was through the PPAP and control plan that they realized we use a plug gage for the ID, which we do for most parts since the ID is a tool dimension. I rather doubt they will absorb the cost at this stage, but it is a consideration if they insist on it.

Wes, this is in part their explanation for the use of a "digital" gage - nothing to do with uploading the SPC data. We don't have the capability to do that regardless.


The reason I suggested digital is resolution. I have never seen an analog metric gage with 0.001mm resolution; the most I have seen is 0.01mm. A vernier IntraMic probably has more, but they are difficult to use and read, have limited range, and are not really inexpensive.


The reason resolution is important is: if you take your natural process variation on the bore, which on your submitted capability study looks like 0.033mm at the most, an analog gage would give you three different measurements. Three possible values is not enough; a rule of thumb is to measure with a gage that has resolution at least 1/10th of your process variation. The reason is that the data most of interest in a study is in the tails of the distribution, which would not be visible in a data set with only three classes; and even the mean is hard to estimate with only three classes of data. The gage I suggested has 0.001mm resolution (by the way, the discrimination of a gage will be less than the resolution) which would give 30 possible different measurements which would work well sorted into 10 classes for analysis. I did notice that the capability study you submitted has only three classes of data, although I only got the graph, so I don’t know what your data resolution was.


The reason I suggested that particular gage is: flexibility: it has a one inch range, and more heads can be purchased to extend that; ease of use: the way the three contacts work make it difficult to get a bad measurement; and considering that it comes with the set rings, it really isn’t all that expensive.


Thanks for the help you've provided,
Sue
 

Al Rosen

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Sue said:
Al, I haven't been able to find this gage on ebay - the range needed is 568-978. There was one with a larger range there however, so I will keep looking. Have added it to my "Favorites" :D
Did you leave out a decimalpoint somewhere?
 
S
#7
Hi Al,

It is listed as 568 series:
568-978 25.4-50.8mm (1-2")
Our spec for this part is 1.4911/1.4971.

Sue
 

Govind

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Sue said:
Wes, we are a very small company (50 employees) and that isn't exactly a deal for us.
Sue,
Other options you may want to conisder:
Bore Dial Gauge (2 point measurement)
Internal Micrometer (2 point Measurement)
No Go Gauge (Attribute gauging).

Regards,
Govind.

Note: If you customer insists on digital measurements, you may have to ignore my suggestions.

Ok, Just got another idea:
There are plate type precision angular wedges available in the market. By Wedging into the bore, you can actually measure the plates protruding outside the bore using a digital 1-2" digital micrometer.
 
Last edited:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
M Need help with Purchasing and Supplier Processes Supplier Quality Assurance and other Supplier Issues 5
J Need Help with FPY Data in Assembly Process Manufacturing and Related Processes 7
S Need help on "Country of Origin" Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
M Need Help With Information Security Asset Risk Register IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 2
C ISO/ IEC 17021 Resource requirement (need help) Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5
SocalSurfer AS9100 new certificate, but need QMS software, help Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 2
S Need help with analysing a survey on minitab Using Minitab Software 1
K A proposal for the model Quality Management - I need help for the project ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
R Probability - Need a help to solve the below question Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 5
8 Need Help - Runout - Function Gage Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 7
S New to FAIR, need help in filling it out AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 8
R Pls help --- Need expert advice on Video Measurement Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 0
Ajit Basrur Need help to understand HIPAA requirements ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 17
Z I need help with getting a CFS in China Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
S Need help wrapping my head around confidence vs beta error Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 2
P Received a minor for not having good measureables/goals. Need help with KPIs. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 52
A Failed the AS9120B Exam Twice.....Need Help AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
Ajit Basrur Need help in Conditional Formatting for the entire row Excel .xls Spreadsheet Templates and Tools 3
H Need help on Quality Improvement Plan (QIP) Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 5
S Help: Need Control Self Assessment Questionnaire for HR Departmental Functions Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 0
M Need help in Calibration of Directional Coupler General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
L Need HELP with Internal Audit Program ISO 13485.2003 Quality Management System (QMS) Manuals 3
J Supporting Processes - Internal Audits - Need help settling a debate IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 4
A Cpk Formula seems off, need help!? Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 11
A Need Help With AEA Auditor Related Situational Questions AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 1
E Transformer Overload Test - Need help IEC 60601 - Medical Electrical Equipment Safety Standards Series 3
C I Need Help with Drafting Conventions!!! Design and Development of Products and Processes 4
M Need help on QMS Development in an AS9100C certified organization AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 10
R Need Help on Analysis: How to know potential causality model from historical data Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 5
B Need help tracking training for my business Quality Assurance and Compliance Software Tools and Solutions 3
B Need help with a Control Plan for Encapsulation Mold / Trimming / Forming Tooling FMEA and Control Plans 9
S I need help from all of you bros Oil and Gas Industry Standards and Regulations 1
LRE67 Need help identifying this "thing" Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 9
G Need help on Device Description in the Acceptance Checklist for Traditional 510(k) Other US Medical Device Regulations 2
K Need help finding a book on Documentation Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 8
J Need help/advice on video editing software etc..... Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 8
L Need Help with Case Study Questions Manufacturing and Related Processes 16
W Help explaining the need for the Process Approach AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 4
Ron Rompen Unusual problem with Excel - Need some help Excel .xls Spreadsheet Templates and Tools 7
S Need help on new TS 16949 Rules IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
M Need help with Network Analyzers and which DUT can be Calibrated with it Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 2
R Need help on defining scope for Design Verification File for Class III IVD 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 8
J Help I need your opinion on a News Letter Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 15
N Need Help Preparing for Medical Device Quality Engineer Interview Career and Occupation Discussions 2
B Need help on an application we are working on Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 4
S Need help with Project Charter for my Six Sigma Green Belt Project Six Sigma 1
Q Need help on MSA study on a torque analyzer Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
B Need help in adding second location to FDA Registration Other US Medical Device Regulations 4
T A survey on problems during ISMS implementation - need help IEC 27001 - Information Security Management Systems (ISMS) 2
Z My first Gage R&R - Paper/Poly/Foil Material Bond Test, need help Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 15

Similar threads

Top Bottom