Need some peer advice

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Leader
Admin
I was chastised for even bringing up what the customer wanted.
Need some peer advice
We are all prisoners of our experiences and, who knows, why your plant manager behaves the way he does, but life is too short for being abused on a daily basis, especially when the job market is hot, like NOW.

May you find the right path for you; good luck.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
We have a new customer who has requested a PPAP from us, the Plant Manager said that he had personally spoken with the owner of the new customer's company and that the owner of that company said that no PPAP would be required. I asked for some type of documentation to cover the demands of corporate and others at the new customer, nothing was documented and he would not reply to an email request for a summary of that conversation. Then, he said he'd be fine with a level 3 PPAP.

Please let me know what you think....

Hi Emmyd,

I think I know what's going on but rather than assume, I will ask.

How did the customer originally "request a PPAP"? Was it a written PO requirement, or was it a verbal request, or what?

How did the Plant Manager then say he'd be fine with a level 3 PPAP? Was this in an email or verbal or what?

Does a level 3 PPAP meet the original request?
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Leader
Super Moderator
I'll suggest things are not so black and white. The CEO / line management is still in command (if I must think from a military perspective). Quality is a support role, and an internal role. But you have to find your own balance. If you can't look yourself in the mirror in the morning, then time to work on moving on. But senior managers come and go, at least in my experience. You'd have to look at what are you being paid, and can you say - they are in charge, I will do as they direct, and keep notes on what recommendations I made. I'd be very careful of giving a customer something that line management did not okay giving out. I did once or twice nudge the customer in a certain direction to look at something (everything is transparent when you are a government contractor) and that may or may not have come back to haunt me, but in the end when I was told to pick up my tools (and my 401k) and go home, that was not a problem.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
I'll suggest things are not so black and white. The CEO / line management is still in command (if I must think from a military perspective). Quality is a support role, and an internal role. But you have to find your own balance. If you can't look yourself in the mirror in the morning, then time to work on moving on. But senior managers come and go, at least in my experience. You'd have to look at what are you being paid, and can you say - they are in charge, I will do as they direct, and keep notes on what recommendations I made. I'd be very careful of giving a customer something that line management did not okay giving out. I did once or twice nudge the customer in a certain direction to look at something (everything is transparent when you are a government contractor) and that may or may not have come back to haunt me, but in the end when I was told to pick up my tools (and my 401k) and go home, that was not a problem.

Hi Steve,

I'm confused. Is this a response to my post? Not so black-and-white as what?
 

Steve Prevette

Deming Disciple
Leader
Super Moderator
The black and white was with respect to the original post. Mostly in terms of what your employer is doing is either good or bad, but many times it is not so clear cut. I did have to bite my tongue, swallow my bile, but respect that line management has the job to make decisions that apply funds and time. So sometimes as professionals we may not agree with management decisions, but in the end need to decide if we stay, we need to live with the decisions. Sorry for causing any confusion.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Leader
Admin
I found a long time ago that a difficult position is not permanent: either I would leave or the other person would leave. And I agree with my colleagues here that what this fellow is doing can't last because yes, the customer does get to determine what goes into the PPAP (good grief) and if customers doesn't get what they want they tend to have choices. So this can't last forever.

But if he drags the place down, you get dragged down too. I would job shop, and stay silent about this guy before, during and after. Now is the market for this type of self preservation.

My heart is with you. Do let us know how it goes from here, okay?
 

Emmyd

Involved In Discussions
Thank you all for the answers - it is a difficult process to go through - unfortunately, not the first time I've had to go through it though (at a different employer). You have no idea how much I appreciate the responses!

To answer some questions, the customer requested a level 3 PPAP via email when they sent us their Supplier Quality Manual and Supplier PPAP procedure. This customer is not automotive, but had PPAP requirements tighter than any OEM I've seen. My boss spoke over the phone to the owner of the company who told him he didn't care about PPAP, but then that same owner would send emails out that very explicitly stated that PPAP would be required. I asked my boss if he had any different emails from the owner saying no PPAP's, but was told that my boss didn't need any documentation, his memory was enough. I emailed my boss asking for a summary of his conversation with the owner, but never received a response.
A few days later, my boss said that now the owner was saying one thing to him, but directing his employees (the customer) to request PPAP. At this point, though, we weren't even given the correct processing information in order to make even a decent part. So we are trying to get the correct information to make a part that we can even PPAP now. Sigh.....

For now, I'm sticking it out - the people in this department deserve someone who can help them and will not abandon them. I'm slowly making improvements and getting the right people in place to make this a better place to work. I'm kind of stubborn that way. :)
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
As a final, parting thought, I will say this, coming from experience: CYA. Always. But especially if the company is or may be violating the law in not doing certain things that are required. In certain situations you could go to jail. No job is worth that.
 
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