Need to do Internal Audit...No Employees Left!

R

Richard Pike

#31
I realize the organization is in cost-cutting modes and all. But they need to develop a Strategy to get them a competitive advantage to pull out of the crisis they are in.
Development of a Strategy - absolutely correct - and with only 5 people left in the Organization - is Internal Audits really a priority?

And with 5 people - how come HR? and a Recruiter?

I am not criticizing, just very curious?:confused:
 
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D

Diamondcat

#32
Having to provide a quote for internal audits makes it appear that it is an expense.
Ummm....Yeah. It sounds like you work at a large company. We are small, cost is a HUGE factor here. I hate to say it but the top reason for certification is basically to satisfy customers requirements.

I have always viewed a decent internal audit program as a return on investment thing.
Sounds nice, but I'm not sure many people (especially those holding the purse strings) agree with that.

...with only 5 people left in the Organization - is Internal Audits really a priority?
You're correct, in these times just keeping afloat is our top priority here.

And with 5 people - how come HR? and a Recruiter?
I probably shouldn't have said HR, she is actually the office manager.
As for the recruiter, he finds people and contracts them into other companies. Then we make money off of them. He is also doing some recruiting for our other offices.
 

foxwilds

Starting to get Involved
#33
Hi Diamondcat,

I think you should spend more of your time looking for a new employer and less on ISO.

I'm joking of course.

Best Regards
Perry
 
C

ChrissieO

#34
I probably shouldn't have said HR, she is actually the office manager.
As for the recruiter, he finds people and contracts them into other companies. Then we make money off of them. He is also doing some recruiting for our other offices.
If you have other offices, are they doing similar operations to yourself? Why not look at a combined/ multi site certification....................Just a thought:bonk:

Cxx
 
D

Diamondcat

#35
I think you should spend more of your time looking for a new employer and less on ISO.
:lol: a) Too lazy to look for a new job. b) This job is as secure as it comes these days. They do everything in their power to keep me employed. c) I'm in Michigan, there are no other jobs!

If you have other offices, are they doing similar operations to yourself? Why not look at a combined/ multi site certification
Picture a rowing team where only the first one in the boat is rowing and the rest are just along for the ride...I'd be the first one in the ISO boat. :frust: It would just be such a pain to have to deal with our other (out of state) offices. Although, we DID make them copies of our system and they are SUPPOSED to alter it to suit their needs and SUPPOSEDLY get certified on their own.
 
R

Richard Pike

#36
Yep there you go then, probably need to keep an eye on (internal audit) those processes that are bringing in money - i.e a disaster in contracting the wrong people might just finish you off - and as for the rest of the -by the book style auditing - forget it.! If you have an auditor who has a problem with that - get another one who can relate to crisis management in small businesses.:magic:
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#37
You don't audit people, you audit the system.
True, but you can not exclude people from being a *significant* part of any and every system. You can say you're not auditing the people, but you can not avoid it. One can not audit a system or process unless one interviews (is that a nicer word?) the people who are a part of the system.

For all intents and purposes, you're auditing both processes/systems and the people involved in the processes/systems unless you can show there are absolutely no people involved in that process or system in any way. I've never done an audit where I did not speak with (audit/interview or what ever you want to call it) people involved in the processes or systems.
 
J

JaneB

#38
just keeping afloat is our top priority here.
Yes, exactly. Survival has to come first, all else becomes somewhat secondary if things are as dire as that. And dropping external certification as a cost-cutting measure may be part of it. Unfortunate, but true if needs must.

PS - if the decision is to go ahead, it would be worth having a discussion with your certifier, to discuss the downsizing and change of scope. Don't worry about them 'refusing' to do an audit on this basis (I've never experienced or heard of that happening) but if, say, it meant that they require less time for the audit (or even to send a different auditor) better they know about that in advance to make arrangements.
 

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#39
I suggest you contact your Registrar: If you are no longer producing to your original Certification Scope, they could possibly refuse to conduct their surveillance audit and suspend or withdraw your Certification. If thats the case, Internal Audits will no longer be an issue, at least for Certification purposes.
I agree that you should discuss this with your registrar. Not because they may pull or suspend your cert, rather, this is such a unique situation, they will need to agree with whatever solution you come up with.

Internal audits are required, they cannot be eliminated. But, the schedule can be modified to reflect current conditions. Remember, the requirement is that they be scheduled and performed periodically. There is not a requirement that they be completed annually. Perhaps this year, the best solution is to spread out the schedule over a couple years, and hope that business rebounds by then. For now, focus on those that have some value to the organization, and delay the rest. But, your CB would have to be in agreement with your solution.
 
R

Richard Pike

#40
Yes, exactly. Survival has to come first, all else becomes somewhat secondary if things are as dire as that. And dropping external certification as a cost-cutting measure may be part of it. Unfortunate, but true if needs must.

PS - if the decision is to go ahead, it would be worth having a discussion with your certifier, to discuss the downsizing and change of scope. Don't worry about them 'refusing' to do an audit on this basis (I've never experienced or heard of that happening)
Sorry for the terminology of "refusing" . I think we are all hitting in the dark. What was the previous product/service supplied and what is it now? Except for "recruiting" I don't see a product/service being supplied - and if so, yes! the Registrar is obligated to pull (refuse) the Certification.

I am also confused over the issue of "pushing quotes (for audits) upstairs for approval". There are FIVE people, if they don't talk to each other - no wonder there is trouble.

All very interesting to see the "passion" with which forum members approach the nitty gritty of subject though -.
 
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