Need to reconduct MSA when there is a change in operators?

W

wchuey

#1
Hi all,

The current organisation I am working in reconducts a MSA whenever a new operator is being trained on the test procedure/equipment. So on top of signing off a training record, the operator has to perform an MSA before he is allowed to perform the test. Though this is not written in any of the procedures, they have been adopting this practise for a long time.

Based on my knowledge, the MSA measures the amount of variation from the machine, parts and operators. As long as the new operators are trained as per the written SOP/work instructions, I do not see a need for a MSA to be reconducted, especially if the original MSA meets the acceptance criteria and operator variation is not a major contributor to the total variation.

Pls advise if there is something wrong with my understanding of MSA:truce:. Thanks!
 
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bobdoering

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#2
Based on my knowledge, the MSA measures the amount of variation from the machine, parts and operators. As long as the new operators are trained as per the written SOP/work instructions, I do not see a need for a MSA to be reconducted, especially if the original MSA meets the acceptance criteria and operator variation is not a major contributor to the total variation.
Gage R&R (MSA is actually more than just gage R&R) measures the amount of variation from the gaging system: gage, parts and operators. It is used to answer the question "Is this the right gage for the job?" If the new operator falls within the skill sets of the operators used for the original Gage R&R (and the goal of the original gage R&R should be to cover all possible skill sets that may use the gage), there should be no need to repeat it.

The current organisation I am working in reconducts a MSA whenever a new operator is being trained on the test procedure/equipment. So on top of signing off a training record, the operator has to perform an MSA before he is allowed to perform the test. Though this is not written in any of the procedures, they have been adopting this practise for a long time.
Gage R&R is a tool box, not just a tool. It can be used as a good way to verify the operator falls within the original skill set. Probably more excessive than most folks care to take it. But, it can be done.:cool:
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
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Admin
#3
bobdoering is correct. The introduction of a new operator does not mandate another complete Gage R&R. If there is a legitimate concern that the skills of the operator may negatively impact the measurement variation, there are simpler alternatives available that would only involve the one operator.

The questions to be answered are:

  1. Does bias exist for this operator?
  2. Is the repeatability for this operator the same as other operators?
Questions 1 and 2 may be answered individually or together using a variety of statistical tests.

One option:

  • Retain the 10 parts from prior MSAs. Have the new operator measure these 10 parts repeatedly. Analyze the combined results of this and earlier MSAs using a standard ANOVA. Perform Tukey's multiple comparisons of means test to determine whether the new operator is different than the others. Perform a test for equal variances to confirm that the repeatability is the same.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
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#4
One option:

  • Retain the 10 parts from prior MSAs. Have the new operator measure these 10 parts repeatedly. Analyze the combined results of this and earlier MSAs using a standard ANOVA. Perform Tukey's multiple comparisons of means test to determine whether the new operator is different than the others. Perform a test for equal variances to confirm that the repeatability is the same.
I was pondering this, and the notion I came up with was similar, maybe a little simpler to analyze using the same software the gage R&R was run in:

Use the original 10 pcs, have the operator measure them as they would if they were performing the original gage R&R, and use their data as replacement data for one of the original operators. See if the results are still acceptable. Hopefully, you replaced the operator of similar skills in the original data set. :cool:
 

Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#6
I was pondering this, and the notion I came up with was similar, maybe a little simpler to analyze using the same software the gage R&R was run in:

Use the original 10 pcs, have the operator measure them as they would if they were performing the original gage R&R, and use their data as replacement data for one of the original operators. See if the results are still acceptable. Hopefully, you replaced the operator of similar skills in the original data set. :cool:
Yes. You could do this. If the software has the flexibility, you could also add the operator as a fourth or fifth operator.
 
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