Never been this close to a plane crash...

Randy

Super Moderator
#21
It's really dependant on a variety of factors. The deicer only works for the leading edges of the wings and props, in areas of low air pressure ice can still form and disrupt airflow, like under the wing, or increase weight and cause an out of balance situation to occur that can modify the angle of attack by either increasing or decreasing the aircraft vertical attitude along the horizontal plane or roll due to one side being heavier than the other.

There are lots of things, small by themselves, but synergistic in their effect.

The NTSB will figure it out that's for sure
 
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Q

quality1

#22
It really is........Can you imagine what the folks are thinking that didn't take the plane because of the delay?

A few years ago there were some icing problems with the ATR-72 that American and other airlines fly.........similar design to the Dash 8.

Anymore I prefer not to fly in weedeaters (turbo-props)...it's just me, the aircraft are safe I know, but I'll drive a few hours before I fly in one again.
Randy, do you think the design of where the wings sit and being a turbo prop contributed to this type of plane crashes in the past? I cringed everytime I get on one of these mosquitos.:(
 
K

Kwilson

#23
Several more turboprops landed in the exact same conditions immediately following the crahs on thursday night. According to the reports I have seen today, it may have been pilot error in trying to correct a stall.

Like was previously said, the NTSB will figure it out...
 
#24
When ice causes a decrease in lift, does it happen gradually or is there a point when the plane suddenly turns into a rock?
It does happen gradually, but the loss of lift is not always the major problem. That can usually be remedied by increasing speed.

Ice can also alter the airflow around control surfaces, thereby changing the flight characteristics of an aircraft. You may not notice it because you are going straight and level, but start a turn or change flap settings and you can suddenly find that you are already outside the parameters where you can do that. When that happens you can go from routine to sheer terror in no time at all.

/Claes
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#25
Randy, do you think the design of where the wings sit and being a turbo prop contributed to this type of plane crashes in the past? I cringed everytime I get on one of these mosquitos.:(
Naw, the design is well tested..look at the C130 as an example

Turbo-prop? This bird has lots of guts, but even in a no ice situation a stall can be induced that if incorrect pilot input occurs the plane can go down faster. When falling (stall) the normal thought is to pull up, but that actually bleeds off speed faster and decreases lift, what you want to do is drop the nose and level the wings to gain speed and use the energy to help bring you out. Helicopters have a similar problem, folks want to increase pitch to pull up but that can actually bleed off inertia and the blades will stop, you really need to bottom the collective out and build rotor speed which will increase lift.

Of course there is always that point of no return where the old joke of shutting your eyes and putting you head between your knees comes in....been there a time or two.
 
A

andygr

#26
Keep in mind that the boots designed to remove ice do not over the whole control surface only the leading edge. Ice can and does build up on other surfaces that can negitivly impact the aerodynamics.
Here is a picture of what the ice build up can look like. The plane that whent down was not in as bad of conditions but it gives you an idea why pilots are warned to limit the amount of time they spend in known icing conditions.
 

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Craig H.

#27
Keep in mind that the boots designed to remove ice do not over the whole control surface only the leading edge. Ice can and does build up on other surfaces that can negitivly impact the aerodynamics.
Here is a picture of what the ice build up can look like. The plane that whent down was not in as bad of conditions but it gives you an idea why pilots are warned to limit the amount of time they spend in known icing conditions.
Holy cow. It looks like that wing would have less lift than the average paperweight.

Has anyone else heard reports that the pilot in this case did pull the nose up after the stall warning? Even I know better....
 
A

Aaron Lupo

#28
we had an auditor in this week and he was flying a turbo-prop into Newark last night on his way back home to Heathrow. He was a little less than enthused to fly yesterday. Traveling prayers to any who are traveling.
I flew to Newark from Syracuse two days before ona Dash-8, bumpy ride but no issues. I was supposed to take a dash 8 from Indy to Cleveland the next day but the plane never made it, had to turn around. I ended up flying NWA to Detroit instead.

A few months before this on my way to NYC to go to Ireland we had to make an emergency landing when we lost an engine, cabin filled with smoke lots of screaming (not sure what the other passangers were doing). First time in my flying life that I thought we were going to bite the bullet.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#29
and we had to make an emergency landing when we lost an engine, cabin filled with smoke lots of screaming (not sure what the other passangers were doing).

shoot, I just took a big swallow of my diet Pepsi, now I'm wearing most of it.:lmao: I wonder what will happen when I show up at our Red Cross Blood drive soaking wet? Maybe I'll change into my gym clothes.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#30
I bit a bullet once, or was it the other way around?:lol:


Smoke while in flight is not fun. Back around '82 or '83 when I was crewing Huey's in the Guard while flying in the rain from Fort Smith to Little Rock our cabin filled up with acrid smoke (phosgene was a component) and sparks started coming out of the overhead circuit breaker panel. It seems like the contracted people who installed our wirestrike protection kit had drilled into some wire bundles and they started to short when they got wet. While I was trying to open the panel and the back doors simultaneously the guys uop front were holding their heads out their windows trying to find a landing spot .....phosgene hits your eyes like pepper spray or CN and you cough pretty good as well. In the end the boys got us to the ground outside of Adkins, AR in the middle of I-40.

Smoke in the cabin with 100 or so civilians....yeah, probably exciting;)
 
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