Never put an Expiration (Due) Date on a Calibration Certificate

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#31
I was really expecting to see a funny face after that question, Jim.

Or, wait, this is better....:sarcasm:

I'll bite anyway....
Yes, we refer to items that are in our lab to be calibrated as artifacts. That is, in written procedures and statements such as the one above. Not in daily conversations, of course... We're not that crazy.:bonk:
Sarcasm? Moi??? I've just never seen the word used that way. Carry on.
 
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Anerol C

Trusted Information Resource
#33
Good morning,
What I can do if we bought several mesuring devices to a distribuitor and the calibration certificates are expired, the devices are brand new, Do I need to create a letter stating the date that we started using the devices and use date date as our calibration date; Do I need to include purchar order as evidence/back up in order to justify why using a differerent date vs certificate date? Please advise, I don't know whant is the best way to deal with this situation.
Thanks for your help.

Do you have such type of letter to share?
AC
Thanks
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#34
Good morning,
What I can do if we bought several mesuring devices to a distribuitor and the calibration certificates are expired, the devices are brand new, Do I need to create a letter stating the date that we started using the devices and use date date as our calibration date; Do I need to include purchar order as evidence/back up in order to justify why using a differerent date vs certificate date? Please advise, I don't know whant is the best way to deal with this situation.
Thanks for your help.

Do you have such type of letter to share?
AC
Thanks
What I would do in this situation, is: Send them out for Calibration.

One thing I have learned is not to always accept the OEM's certificate of Calibration.
 

Jerry Eldred

Forum Moderator
Super Moderator
#35
There are times when you can get away with using a delayed start date for a cal interval. However, generally, in an audit, you would have the burden of proof to demonstrate to the auditor why during the intervening time the accuracy would not have degraded in the instrument.

Items which change value strictly due to use versus passage of time, that may be acceptable. In a previous employer, we used high temperature thermocouples which have a life span of about 6 months when used at around 1000 to 1200 Degrees Celsius. However, that aging was due to the high temperature. So we had a document in our quality system stating that our procedure was to place them in environmentally controlled storage. Then, when they were given to the user, the calibration interval began. This could have been true for items which only age/drift/change during use, and definitely do not change in controlled storage.

But for everything else, the cal date is when it was actually calibrated.

My recommendation would be as in the previous post: to either live with the existing cal date/due date, or get them re certified.

As to the validity of the OEM certificate, some are good and some are not. I am currently in a high volume lab with pretty strict guidelines in that regard. We review every one of the OEM certificates on new instruments. Quite often they are fine (from the large, reputable OEMS (such as Fluke, Tektronix, Agilent, Mitutoyo, etc.). But some are not. I would weigh the validity of the particular certificate as to whether to accept it.

Sorry if any of this is bad news. Just have to shoot as straight as I can, and try to help.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#36
Good morning,
What I can do if we bought several mesuring devices to a distribuitor and the calibration certificates are expired, the devices are brand new, Do I need to create a letter stating the date that we started using the devices and use date date as our calibration date; Do I need to include purchar order as evidence/back up in order to justify why using a differerent date vs certificate date? Please advise, I don't know whant is the best way to deal with this situation.
Thanks for your help.

Do you have such type of letter to share?
AC
Thanks
I'm not exactly clear about what timetable events followed.

  1. Were the certificates expired when you obtained the devices? (If yes, you should have gotten a BIG discount, which would cover cost of updating calibration) - many folks have operations where devices are for "intermediate measuring activity" and only the FINAL devices are kept calibrated - not exactly best practice, but often acceptable, so they are natural market for discounted, out-of-date devices.
  2. If the devices were NOT out-of-date when you acquired them, it is your organization's responsibility to keep them calibrated with up-to-date certificates if your own QMS (Quality Management System) requires calibrated devices.
If these devices are used to approve product, they probably should have current certificates of calibration. If they have NEVER been used, odds are they can merely be rechecked by the original certificate signer and updated, without requiring costly adjustments or refurbishing to bring into calibration - price "could" be much more reasonable than going to a new entity to obtain a certificate.

Good luck! Tell us what you ultimately do and whether the pricing was fair or exorbitant.
 
B

Bob the QE

#37
I strongly agree with Wes's first point. Whether you believe the cert to be accurate or not (even if it up to date). That cert is part of your purchase and thus you have paid for it. If you went to buy another type of equipment or device wouldn't you expect it to be in working condition for its intended use? Of course you would, so the same would hold true in this case. I would guess the use of this equipment is verification and thus calibration is a major part of that. I would also ask your distributor what their FIFO policy is. I don't know that this would be a concern but the answer would be interesting.

The points on your organization are accountable to audit criteria regardless of the root cause also appear to be strong.


Good Luck
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#38
One thing that has been mentioned (thanks AndyN) is accreditation under ISO/IEC 17025.....if a cal provider is not accredited or is ISO 9K, there is no real oversight with respect to the due date issue. In fact, if the lab is only ANSI/NCSL Z540-1-1994 which is self-declared, that standard requires the due date be provided.....otherwise the customer (user of the instrument) has to monitor and control this.....in my experience there are few Metrology professionals at end user organizations and especially at smaller organizations, hence there may be insufficient knowledge to interface with the cal provider.....remember, Quality and Metrology are related but are not the same!

Under ISO/IEC 17025, Clause 5.10.4, due dates cannot be put on without prior agreement by the customer, and the ABs oversee this.

Hope this helps clarify what is or is not allowed.
 

Wayne

Gage Crib Worldwide
#39
What I can do if we bought several measuring devices to a distributor and the calibration certificates are expired, the devices are brand new, Do I need to create a letter stating the date that we started using the devices and use date as our calibration date; Do I need to include purchase order as evidence/back up in order to justify why using a different date vs certificate date? Please advise, I don't know what is the best way to deal with this situation.
Anerol C; I would point you back to the first post that started this thread:
... the basic fact that a certification is only valid at the moment the instrument is being checked. By the time the certification has been typed the instrument may already be out of calibration....
In this specific situation, you know by virtue of the provided calibration certificate, that it has been some time since the tools were manufactured. It is for you to determine if they deteriorate with the passage of time. You also know that the tools are “brand new”; that they are in original packaging and appeared to no signs of use or abuse.

It is up to you, as the local Quality Professional to determine if the tools need calibration. If you decide not to have the tool checked, it would be best to attach to the certificate a note describing your decision process, with any appropriate documentation, because you may need to substantiate the logic behind your decision.

Basically I would say: When in doubt; send them out.
What I would do in this situation, is: Send them out for Calibration. One thing I have learned is not to always accept the OEM's certificate of Calibration.
Again, remembering the first post, calibration expiration dates are worth little. Whenever you purchase a new tool, regardless of the supplied calibration certificate, you should evaluate the tool to determine if local verification is required.

... you should have gotten a BIG discount, which would cover cost of updating calibration ...
... That cert is part of your purchase and thus you have paid for it.... I would guess the use of this equipment is verification and thus calibration is a major part of that.
As long as the type of tool is such that it does not deteriorate with age, and knowing that any certification is only really valid when the tool was verified, regardless of any applied “expiration date”, sending a new tool to your approved laboratory upon arrival is just prudent. The initial calibration of the new tool will give you a base-line calibration, and the cost of calibration should not that BIG of an issue. It will be an expense that you will incur several times during the life of the tool.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Anerol C

Trusted Information Resource
#40
I'm not exactly clear about what timetable events followed.

  1. Were the certificates expired when you obtained the devices? (If yes, you should have gotten a BIG discount, which would cover cost of updating calibration) - many folks have operations where devices are for "intermediate measuring activity" and only the FINAL devices are kept calibrated - not exactly best practice, but often acceptable, so they are natural market for discounted, out-of-date devices.
  2. If the devices were NOT out-of-date when you acquired them, it is your organization's responsibility to keep them calibrated with up-to-date certificates if your own QMS (Quality Management System) requires calibrated devices.
If these devices are used to approve product, they probably should have current certificates of calibration. If they have NEVER been used, odds are they can merely be rechecked by the original certificate signer and updated, without requiring costly adjustments or refurbishing to bring into calibration - price "could" be much more reasonable than going to a new entity to obtain a certificate.

Good luck! Tell us what you ultimately do and whether the pricing was fair or exorbitant.
Yes some of the certificates were expired when we received the equipment.
What I think I will do is get a deviation to use them while we can send them out to calibration, the issue is that some of them are the only equipment in the whole plant, so I think we need to get a new one then send the equipment with expired certificate to calibration. I think this is the only thing that I can do if we are going to have the registrar coming to our plant in about one month.
Thanks
AC
 
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