New Auditor wants Mould tool repair bill included in Cost of Poor Quality!

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

What you guys are saying is fine and dandy, but where's the system issue here? 1 gauge? An nc-worthy finding? I don't think so, I know it isn't so!

I agree. There should always be evidence of a systemic problem before writing something up.

 

[Shamus]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

Thank you everyone, interesting comments.
In hindsight may be I should have been a bit more assertive.

Anyway it’s Friday and after a stressful week I’m off home.
I will look at the comments again on Monday when I have to start
My Corrective Action Submission stuff.

Have a good weekend

 

[BradM]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

I agree. There should always be evidence of a systemic problem before writing something up.

What you guys are saying is fine and dandy, but where's the system issue here? 1 gauge? An nc-worthy finding? I don't think so, I know it isn't so!

I too agree with both of you also. I did not say I would have written it up; merely to point out why the auditor may have written it up.

In the end, though, a past due gauge is so easy, and is such low-lying fruit for any auditor. It's best to always have a provision somewhere to allow for at-risk usage.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

Thank you everyone, interesting comments.
In hindsight may be I should have been a bit more assertive.

Anyway it’s Friday and after a stressful week I’m off home.
I will look at the comments again on Monday when I have to start
My Corrective Action Submission stuff.

Have a good weekend

Go and have a couple of Abbot Ales or Wells (is it any better than it was back in the late 70's?)

Where in Bucks are you? I have a neice in Aylesbury!

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

Friends,

All of you raise excellent points. However, when I look at the performance of an auditor and the audit results, I tend to look at the intent of the audit. It is hard for me to believe that an auditor willingly and knowingly would raise issues that do not have some validity or would not have some merit. We can all argue about NC's, findings, OFI's or whatever you want to call them. I truly believe (call me naive if you will), that the auditor wants to do the right thing. We may or may not agree with the issues, but a good auditor will clarify the situation and explain why it is of concern. A good auditor will listen to reason. That's been mostly my experience. I also found that some auditees are ill prepared to explain and "defend" their processes and then complain how bad the auditor is. I raised that point in another post.

Now, look at the audit evidence. True nonconformity (nonfulfilment of a requirement)? Take the "hit" and deal with it. Other issues? The auditor may be trying to "help" you (they cannot consult). Take a close look at it. Would it be beneficial? Add value perhaps? Fix the process or the situation. You likely will be better as a result of it.

In the end, the audit process is still very much a people process. Most people want to do the right thing. Let's keep this in mind when we pass judgement.

I know that this topic has been discussed many times here in The Cove, and it keeps coming up again and again. Must be a topic near and dear to many people's hearts.

Thank you for allowing me to be on my soapbox for a while.....

Stijloor.

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

It is hard for me to believe that an auditor willingly and knowingly would raise issues that do not have some validity or would not have some merit. We can all argue about NC's, findings, OFI's or whatever you want to call them. I truly believe (call me naive if you will), that the auditor wants to do the right thing. We may or may not agree with the issues, but a good auditor will clarify the situation and explain why it is of concern. A good auditor will listen to reason. That's been mostly my experience. I also found that some auditees are ill prepared to explain and "defend" their processes and then complain how bad the auditor is. I raised that point in another post.

Yes, there are many professional, reasonable, mature, adding-value, competent auditors. And the opposite, as well. To think that all auditors are performing good audits is naive (you said it yourself). A system that has been built over decades on conformance to requirements end up with this type of byproducts. Findings that can not really be processed via a serious corrective action process. If there is no systemic problem, the best you can do is correction, not true corrective action.

 

[D.Scott]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

Everything seems to be said that needed to be said but I would like to make a comment on one of the statements.

I would like to ensure that those who may be getting fresh information from these posts understands that the customer waiver referred to only applies to the customer who waived the requirement. Using the example in the thread, if a customer waives the calibration requirement on a gage, that waiver doesn't apply to the gage when used on another customer's parts. The original requirements would need to be met for all other measurements. Obviously, if a customer waived PPAP, you would still need to submit a PPAP to your other customers as applicable.

Dave

 

[Pudge 72]

Re: Change of Auditor - Mould tool repair bill in the Cost of Poor Quality reports?

Excellent observation & good point.

 

[gpainter]

What does your system require of you? What data you use is up to you. Maybe s/he meant to list it as an OFI. Too many auditors seem to be wanting to make your system theirs.
The second one not an issue, as long as it is in calibration. I would call the parent company and let them know. I would bet they would be rescended.