New ISO Program
- Thread starter SpinDr99
- Start date
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Yeah, for the biz the OP is talking about, that isn't going to work. ISO 9001 is irrelevant and just a barrier to objective thought. Better question is whether they want to run the biz more effectively and where to they want to improve.
Randy
Super Moderator
Until you find some solid ground to latch onto your spinning your wheels in the mud.
What is it you truly want to do and why? What is your business case? (If you can't apply a solid business case ... Achievement of Profitability against Investment (cost), you're wasting yours and everyone else's time.
You've got 3 Lead certifications? And in all the time and expense to acquire those you haven't got a grasp on the fact that everything is money driven? If money was not involved nobody would give a crap. There isn't one person or organization that I've audited over the last near quarter century that did an ISO based management system to get a warm fuzzy. Get a handle on the money aspect 1st before doing all the whiz-bang, razzle-dazzle management system dribble.
What is it you truly want to do and why? What is your business case? (If you can't apply a solid business case ... Achievement of Profitability against Investment (cost), you're wasting yours and everyone else's time.
You've got 3 Lead certifications? And in all the time and expense to acquire those you haven't got a grasp on the fact that everything is money driven? If money was not involved nobody would give a crap. There isn't one person or organization that I've audited over the last near quarter century that did an ISO based management system to get a warm fuzzy. Get a handle on the money aspect 1st before doing all the whiz-bang, razzle-dazzle management system dribble.
Being there only a month means you haven't had time to earn respect and trust needed to drive a totally new project that affects virtually every person and process in some way.
Is management "lackluster" or "driven"? Those terms seem mutually exclusive.
Sidney said it well, IMO: "The gist of it is: without true management support and involvement, no sustainable implementation is possible."
IMO you must get top management to get actively involved, get them to attend and participate in the meetings, and give you support or else you will struggle and likely fail.
For my suggestion, Its probably a better question at the initial interview. If it causes confusion and people looking at other people thats a sign. "Does anyone know why we have a QMS?" Might be time to run.
At the end of every interview I always ask something like "What do you REALLY want from this position?" What main issue causes you to need to fill this position now?
Ok, here goes. Top management SAYS they want ISO. And like in so many cases, this is customer (only one) driven. Management knows things are a mess and want someone to straighten up the place. Then there's what we've ALL heard of so often, "This is how we've always done it". If I only had a penny! The fact is management may possibly know their baby is ugly. So with that, I'm hopeful. But when they're SO overloaded with things and they barely have time to sit down, I'm left doing what I can while holding my breath for them to truly come to the table.
As for what things cost, I'm seeing "Work Orders" which look more like a Bill of Materials, no way for people to start and stop an operation and input their employee number, parts that have been in inventory so long that things have lost their price. "Controlled documents" that have typed names for approval. The company has never had a true Quality program or a person to spearhead that effort. So getting traction seems SO far away at this point. When I give ESD training and set up bench mats and they the same "trained" people work on another bench, I have to admit the training wasn't effective and they didn't get the message. The new GM joined the company less than a year ago and I'm hopeful to get his support. The owner? Seems to be talking the talk but I'm not even seeing any crawling, let alone walking.
Enough with the analogies, I'm supposed to sit with the new GM today and I've got an earful for him. I know I'm a relief for him since he doesn't have to do the Quality function himself. I'm hoping he'll get off the proverbial pot and hire a Production Supervisor. Finally. In the meantime I'm trying to stay optimistic. Once the Ops Director comes back from being sick, I'm going to schedule a meeting with the hourly people to open the communication and try to get some buy-in from them. Baby steps.
I could to on forever about why parts need to be identified on the floor, why we need to practice safe ESD, why we need to have SOP's WI's and Engineering drawings and ECO's with signatures, but the workforce here is SO green. There isn't even a delivery Receiver or ANY Quality personnel. Parts come in and go straight to stock or work orders without more than looking to see if the box is banged up. Forget about what's IN the box.
There was a layoff after COVID, and after the layoff, some of their more skilled people jumped ship, so this adds more to the equation.
Thanks for your input.
As for what things cost, I'm seeing "Work Orders" which look more like a Bill of Materials, no way for people to start and stop an operation and input their employee number, parts that have been in inventory so long that things have lost their price. "Controlled documents" that have typed names for approval. The company has never had a true Quality program or a person to spearhead that effort. So getting traction seems SO far away at this point. When I give ESD training and set up bench mats and they the same "trained" people work on another bench, I have to admit the training wasn't effective and they didn't get the message. The new GM joined the company less than a year ago and I'm hopeful to get his support. The owner? Seems to be talking the talk but I'm not even seeing any crawling, let alone walking.
Enough with the analogies, I'm supposed to sit with the new GM today and I've got an earful for him. I know I'm a relief for him since he doesn't have to do the Quality function himself. I'm hoping he'll get off the proverbial pot and hire a Production Supervisor. Finally. In the meantime I'm trying to stay optimistic. Once the Ops Director comes back from being sick, I'm going to schedule a meeting with the hourly people to open the communication and try to get some buy-in from them. Baby steps.
I could to on forever about why parts need to be identified on the floor, why we need to practice safe ESD, why we need to have SOP's WI's and Engineering drawings and ECO's with signatures, but the workforce here is SO green. There isn't even a delivery Receiver or ANY Quality personnel. Parts come in and go straight to stock or work orders without more than looking to see if the box is banged up. Forget about what's IN the box.
There was a layoff after COVID, and after the layoff, some of their more skilled people jumped ship, so this adds more to the equation.
Thanks for your input.
Sorry, but I am going to push back here. You say they "need" all of these things. Why do they need them? Because you think so? Do you have evidence of problems? Costs related to those problems? You're putting the answer before the question.
For example, you say: "parts come in and go straight to stock or work orders without more than looking to see if the box is banged up." So what? Why is this important? Do you have any evidence that this is a problem? How big of a problem is it? I am on dock to stock with most of my customers. They don't look in the box until they use the parts.
So you believe it's ok to put parts into stock or to the floor before you know that they meet purchase requirements? Never heard that one before. It's not for me to prove there are problems, but for me to have knowledge that out suppliers are giving us not only what we purchased, but are actually going to work in our products. You're on dock-to-stock with your customers because they've QUALIFIED your company. None of my suppliers are qualified, and there are no records of previous receipts to show me they consistently provide with with what we need, and they meet the requirements we've asked and paid for. Perhaps you've forgotten that part of becoming dock-to-stock. We and our suppliers are still in the infancy stage where I need to qualify them BEFORE I blindly put their products into our stock.
Again, the supplier needs to show me a history of providing acceptable parts, not me providing them a history of shipping rejected parts to me.
Again, the supplier needs to show me a history of providing acceptable parts, not me providing them a history of shipping rejected parts to me.
Kronos147
Trusted Information Resource
Maybe I am reading this incorrectly, but if the GM "...doesn't have to do the Quality function...", that is pretty much a recipe for disaster. The GM needs to be a quality leader.
Perhaps you ask him what management system they plan to use. If there is another management system other than "quality", I would say your first task is understanding the other management system and integrating the systems to meet the requirements of the Quality MS and the other MS (exception being the Financial Management System).
Well if that is going to be your approach, good luck with your failure. You're not going to have any success running around like bull in china shop saying you must do this, you must do that. You're not King.
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