New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audits

[OneBigDog]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

Thanks to all!
Great replies!
I am doing an internal audit now.
There is all ready a government CAR from 12/13 still open, about the system falling apart.
No typo there 12/13...
I will hold a management meeting based on audit and CAR and see where it goes.

More ideas welcome... This is a recert audit!

 

[LUV-d-4UM]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

Thanks to all!
Great replies!
I am doing an internal audit now.
There is all ready a government CAR from 12/13 still open, about the system falling apart.
No typo there 12/13...
I will hold a management meeting based on audit and CAR and see where it goes.

More ideas welcome... This is a recert audit!

Good Luck on your Internal Audit and Management Review . At this point do not hesitate to issue a Major NC on your system because it appears to be broken and Management needs to act on it before the next surveillance audit.

Marc and the Cover team of consultants will back you up.

 

[AndyN]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

Thanks to all!
Great replies!
I am doing an internal audit now.
There is all ready a government CAR from 12/13 still open, about the system falling apart.
No typo there 12/13...
I will hold a management meeting based on audit and CAR and see where it goes.

More ideas welcome... This is a recert audit!

Yes, be sure to contact your auditor well before they get there. Introduce yourself. Ensure they hear that YOU have been working to bring the system back on-line. That YOU are working with management to undo the rot of the past years and that you expect a firm message from the auditor to management that THEY are in control of their fate, not YOU. Leverage the auditor's message to management (be theatrical if needed) to get management's attention. Make the most of the visit to ensure the message is a clear one - it's a "skin of the teeth" deal - unless there are majors of course!

 

[Alpine]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

When I audited the system, I was hard, some argued too hard. But I really believed, better for me to find the failings and come up with a plan to address them, than wait for the CB to come in and do it for me. What it did, was show the CB my intent, and clearly differentiate my approach from than of my predecessor. You are a professional, and take pride in your work, make it clear from the outset, and the CB will be on side.

 

[Reg Morrison]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

More ideas welcome... This is a recert audit!

There are some unknowns in this situation:

How long has the system been deteriorating?
Is the same auditor coming back?
How good/bad is the auditor?

If the system has been in shambles for a while, and the auditor is the same one, remember: they have been accomplices in the current state of things. Have you had a chance to review previous audit reports? Have NC's been written up? Were the previous audits thorough?

The sad reality is that there are some registrar auditors that would not recognize a major nonconformity even if it sat on his lap and called him daddy....Some auditors DO come for the donuts (jelly filled ones), free wifi, comfy chairs in the conference room, NBA tickets, etc....Before you "plea guilty" to the auditor, you must know what type of auditor he is. No point admitting the system is totally broken down BEFORE hand. If and when he finds something, you can (only then) describe what you inherited and what you are doing to correct.

Another red flag that we don't know much about it: why did your predecessor leave? Maybe he was trying to do exactly what you are attempting to do now, and, maybe he clashed with management. Do you know what happened? Otherwise, you might find yourself trailing the same path....

Maybe, just maybe, management does want a poor QMS in place and just wants a certificate to hang on the lobby....If management does not care about an effective system, you CAN'T force it upwards. You HAVE to be able to read the situation and how/what led the organization to the current state of affairs. Otherwise, you might be caught in blowback.....

Anyway, good luck.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

Reg makes some points that ALWAYS lurk in the forefront of my consciousness, but usually I'm able to stifle lest I look like the cynical old man I really am.

I would have loved to be an invisible presence as you went through the hiring process. How much of this was disclosed to you before you accepted the job offer? I've written a whole slew of threads about the efficient job hunting process and RESEARCH before and during the application and interview process is paramount. Most of the experienced Cove denizens here are wondering whether the bosses really want you to fix what's broken or just act as sacrificial cannon fodder with the feds and the CB to let them milk a few more bucks out of this sick cow.

There are some unknowns in this situation:

How long has the system been deteriorating?
Is the same auditor coming back?
How good/bad is the auditor?

If the system has been in shambles for a while, and the auditor is the same one, remember: they have been accomplices in the current state of things. Have you had a chance to review previous audit reports? Have NC's been written up? Were the previous audits thorough?

The sad reality is that there are some registrar auditors that would not recognize a major nonconformity even if it sat on his lap and called him daddy....Some auditors DO come for the donuts (jelly filled ones), free wifi, comfy chairs in the conference room, NBA tickets, etc....Before you "plea guilty" to the auditor, you must know what type of auditor he is. No point admitting the system is totally broken down BEFORE hand. If and when he finds something, you can (only then) describe what you inherited and what you are doing to correct.

Another red flag that we don't know much about it: why did your predecessor leave? Maybe he was trying to do exactly what you are attempting to do now, and, maybe he clashed with management. Do you know what happened? Otherwise, you might find yourself trailing the same path....

Maybe, just maybe, management does want a poor QMS in place and just wants a certificate to hang on the lobby....If management does not care about an effective system, you CAN'T force it upwards. You HAVE to be able to read the situation and how/what led the organization to the current state of affairs. Otherwise, you might be caught in blowback.....

Anyway, good luck.

 

[Kronos147]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

I wonder what caused the change in MR?

Did management realize there was a problem and found you? Document that as a corrective action.

 

[hogheavenfarm]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

I always try to find out how close a company is to a recert, as they always seem to be hiring for QAM or MR a few months before it is due. This tells you much about the company culture right up front. Of course sometimes things just work out that way, but from what I have seen, it appears to be a common issue. I always try to find out why the person I was supposed to replace left, and then follow it up and confirm it. Sites tlike this one are good for 'outside verification', as are 'Lovemyjob-hatemyjob' dotcoms (there are several) -
Forewarned is forearmed.

 

[normzone]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

These are all great posts, and great advice. I walked into a situation with many of these aspects and did exactly as has been recommended here, and it's working. Be assertive in your internal audits, determine REAL root causes, develop and use an effective corrective action system, and you will thrive if the environment is fertile.

If it's not, running screaming is probable. Go out honorably.

 

[Randy]

Re: New Job 1 Month from Recertification Audit - Missing Documents, no Internal Audit

Well here I am, doing a 9001 recertification audit today, right now, (day 1 of 4 days) and guess what? No Management Review per their procedure since 2013 (the minimum is annual for them so none in 2014), there are multiple revisions of the same document available for use for multiple documents, and we've been playing "Who's on 1st?, and Where's Waldo?". I have also identified lack of involvement (commitment) and lack of "MAINTAINING"

Almost identical to the conditions in the OP's original post, anyone care to guess the chances of recommending recertification at this stage of the game?