New QA Manager - Top Management is Divided - Between a rock and a hard place

[Wes Bucey]

Well, I hope this isn't my last entry. I pushed too hard. I know many of you told me to plan my exit strategy, but the following has now happened.

I think I got the company certified. It has been sent to the IATF twice now. The registrar thinks they have gotten it right.
I went to my boss and demanded a raise. I said basically pay me the average that a quality manager should be paid.
They fired me. I had many points to make.

Sorry for the down note, but you all have been my friends. I just want to share my note with a group that will understand.

I will try to remain in quality, but, it looks like an up-hill battle.

Bummer!

It may be little solace, but perhaps this little advice my uncle always gave might help you when you get ready to get back on the horse:
"That which doesn't kill you only makes you stronger!"

My own advice:
"Knowledge is power!"

Together, they both hint that the pain you suffer now will help immunize you against getting caught in the same or similar trap in the future.

 

[fuzzy]

Well, I hope this isn't my last entry. I pushed too hard. I know many of you told me to plan my exit strategy, but the following has now happened.

I think I got the company certified. It has been sent to the IATF twice now. The registrar thinks they have gotten it right.
I went to my boss and demanded a raise. I said basically pay me the average that a quality manager should be paid.
They fired me...How many of you stuggle with companies that cover up and lie to the auditors. How many of you try to convince auditors that you are doing the right things, when you just do not have the time as you are so massively overloaded with reactive work that your organization does not even understand goal, metrics, and the basics of training and empowerment?

Sorry for the down note, but you all have been my friends. I just want to share my note with a group that will understand.

I will try to remain in quality, but, it looks like an up-hill battle.

Well I'm sorry to see that you joined my club ...I was laid off in Feb after returning from medical leave with one month to go to a re-cert audit. My replacement gave her notice after about 2 weeks:mg: and guess who called in the middle of the audit???? Needless to say the system had totally broken down during my leave (No internal audits completed, document control ignored, etc.) and during the re-cert (can you say witness audit?) they were gifted with double digit major NC's and double digit minors. Can you say goodbye to over $2 million in sales for this year? Sure you can...my worst result in 2 yrs was 5 minors, but as you say horns, I was just covering up with band-aids what I knew was hurting . Good luck with your future.

As for me I'm taking the leap into free-lancing as a contractor: Training, consulting, or auditing...will travel. Hope my lights stay on...

 

[Kevin H]

Ouch Guys - unemployment is no fun. Good luck on the job hunt/career changes.
I'm still waiting for our registrar to catch on that our quality system really isn't working as it should be. Luckily, I'm out of QA and doing QC work with the organization. Maybe they'll catch it during our next audit, as we'll be up for recertification. I'm not holding my breath, but am darn glad I'm out of the immediate firing line if they do issue major nonconformances.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Well I'm sorry to see that you joined my club ...I was laid off in Feb after returning from medical leave with one month to go to a re-cert audit. My replacement gave her notice after about 2 weeks:mg: and guess who called in the middle of the audit???? Needless to say the system had totally broken down during my leave (No internal audits completed, document control ignored, etc.) and during the re-cert (can you say witness audit?) they were gifted with double digit major NC's and double digit minors. Can you say goodbye to over $2 million in sales for this year? Sure you can...my worst result in 2 yrs was 5 minors, but as you say horns, I was just covering up with band-aids what I knew was hurting . Good luck with your future.

As for me I'm taking the leap into free-lancing as a contractor: Training, consulting, or auditing...will travel. Hope my lights stay on...

Well, maybe they'll take you back for the short term, to fix it. Or, maybe you'd rather not go there. Wish you the best. There are companies out there that deserve your efforts and integrity. That goes to Just66horns, too.

Best of luck, guys. If any of you have Plastic Molding experience, send me a private message.

 

[Wes Bucey]

For fuzzy:
It is often said "Revenge is a pie best tasted cold!" Usually that means waiting a long time to see a tormentor get payback. You lucked out by getting some of the pie while it is still warm. The only way to go back is with an up front bonus of high five or low six figures and free rein.

For hjilling:
Thanks for the generous gesture. It is important for Cove folks to remember WE are all part of our own network. Let's make an effort to be good networkers for our fellow Cove members.

 

[tony wardle]

Hey, this is an interesting post and the replies are quite either quite true or in some cases quite entertaining. Nette from the UK pretty much has it summed up - sounds like the story of alot of QA managers.

From my point of view there are two questions - does the boss want a QMS system or not - simple enough. If he does, does he want it for the sake of a logo or purely marketing (in which case it will cost the company money) or does he want the system to work for him (and this will hopeful lead to cost saving). Again this is simple enough.

I too had the issue with implementation. At the time, the quality maturity of our top management and staff was very low. This sounds the case in your post. Getting ISO9002 took 5 years. In that time, I gave the guys a choice after a gap analysis - either use my system or make your own. The only proviso was - it HAD TO MEET THE SPEC. If we failed the audit because Billy Joe or whoever did not get it right, I would highlight to the boss man, the amount of money spent, and that it was not QA who duffed, it was Billy.
Billy had to sort his own problem, or ask for help, but most important, it was not - and still is not - QAs system or my system - it is our system.

TS 16949 was implemented alot faster. The issue here was simple - live with TS or we all find new work.

Once we got past this hurdle, the guys started evolving their systems and it is now a part of life in our company. - I posted under 9002 a few weeks ago about weekly management review. Many people responded that it was too frequent - but - I also mentioned that although it is not a compulsory meet - ALL the managers attend and participate voluntarily. We have come along way with our quality maturity. Having said this - top management still could not really give a sh*t. The excuses made for them is that they "direct", they are busy etc. etc. We have contract review issues - mainly from the top guys not following the system. But, this too is changing - SLOWLY.

As the QA guy - you are only a facilitator. Change in terms of quality attitude and commitment will go thru a phase of want to need. It sounds to me that the top guys and to a degree, the production guys see the system as something outside of the day to day process, and it nice to have or a flea biting their butts. A few dollars wasted and some pushing from your customers and it will become a have to have.

In terms of champions and change management, I worked on the principle of "killing a dragon a day" - like the knights of the olden days. These clowns went out and killed a dragon a day for one or other reason. Today there are none. So too with quality problems - systems, people or machines - try to fix or change one a day. Soon there will be few problems left. Difficult? - hell yes - Rewarding? - more so.

Keep us informed of the progress - good luck!

 

[Helmut Jilling]

...

TS 16949 was implemented alot faster. The issue here was simple - live with TS or we all find new work.

Once we got past this hurdle, the guys started evolving their systems and it is now a part of life in our company.... ... In terms of champions and change management, I worked on the principle of "killing a dragon a day" - like the knights of the olden days. These clowns went out and killed a dragon a day for one or other reason. Today there are none. So too with quality problems - systems, people or machines - try to fix or change one a day. Soon there will be few problems left. Difficult? - hell yes - Rewarding? - more so.

Keep us informed of the progress - good luck!

I like your style, Tony!

 

[Alex Kobzar]

Ups, I see that the TS certification is already there!
Congratulations!: )

1. Obtain the top management's commitment to achieve the TS certification.
2. Establish the documented QMS for the TS; have the QP's approved by respective managers (if required: make a timing plan with assigned responsibilities and due dates to have the docs approved).
3. Have full round of internal audits conducted and CAPA assigned with responsibilities and due dates; I'd not suggest to let any other than your qualified internal auditors to perform any "gap analysis"; it will lead to nowhere.
4. Have all requests for CAPA addressed to responsible managers; determine with the managers the due dates.
5. Initiate a management review according to the standard requirements; review the CAPA plan with the top management to decide whether and when the organization is/will be ready for the certification audit.

 

[Anthonyl]

I don't know if this should be another forum topic really but in a way it is related and it is certainly a reflection of how quality has to adapt,sometimes very quickly, to change.

The QD and myself took a total of ten years planning, developing and improving a structured quality system. In that time we progresses from ISO9001, QS9000 and now TS2.

(We are vehicle converters, i.e. putting shelving in or logos on vehicles)
Having developed a system that works, normally with an average of 1 very minor non-conformity per audit, our new MD an hour ago, stated that he wants our line supervisors to carry out the inspections for a months trial period. Unfortunately these are the same guys that cause us to have internal rejects running at 9.2%, which is reduced to 0.007% by my department inspectors and the corrective actions they carry out and all because these same supervisors do not check their department output thoroughly, take no heed of the feedback we provide and, I feel, don't care as long as they get paid. (figures based on final customers complaints).
I wish there were a clause in TS2 that stated you had to have an inspection team but it is just "Top Management" and sometimes I feel that this is the biggest failing of the standard! It feels like I'm watching ten years of effort go down the drain

 

[Helmut Jilling]

I don't know if this should be another forum topic really but in a way it is related and it is certainly a reflection of how quality has to adapt,sometimes very quickly, to change.

The QD and myself took a total of ten years planning, developing and improving a structured quality system. In that time we progresses from ISO9001, QS9000 and now TS2.

(We are vehicle converters, i.e. putting shelving in or logos on vehicles)
Having developed a system that works, normally with an average of 1 very minor non-conformity per audit, our new MD an hour ago, stated that he wants our line supervisors to carry out the inspections for a months trial period. Unfortunately these are the same guys that cause us to have internal rejects running at 9.2%, which is reduced to 0.007% by my department inspectors and the corrective actions they carry out and all because these same supervisors do not check their department output thoroughly, take no heed of the feedback we provide and, I feel, don't care as long as they get paid. (figures based on final customers complaints).
I wish there were a clause in TS2 that stated you had to have an inspection team but it is just "Top Management" and sometimes I feel that this is the biggest failing of the standard! It feels like I'm watching ten years of effort go down the drain

you might find cl 8.2.4 and 8.2.3 to be useful. They have to be effective.

Would you be able to propose a "wager." For one moth they can check their own work, but your team checks it after, to validate their effectiveness in checking work. Then, compare the results?