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New Service Company wants ISO 9001 Certification - 20 People in company

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H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#33
#33
Re: New Service Company - 20 People - Wants ISO 9001 !

I am sorry, but, while I am happy for your success, am I the only one here who is distressed by this?

You went through a 1 day certification audit, had little knowledge of ISO and the consultant "gave you" a QM. The auditor found one issue, and let you fix it the same day? :frust:

This does not sound like a working, effective quality management system. You merely bought a certificate. This is the type of situation that makes a mockery of the whole ISO process. It is the subject of many posts on this Cove.

I sincerely hope you truly learn ISO and build a more appropriate program over time.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#34
#34
The relentless pursuit of happiness

hjilling said:
You went through a 1 day certification audit, had little knowledge of ISO and the consultant "gave you" a QM. The auditor found one issue, and let you fix it the same day?
Click to expand...
But she is very, very, very happy. And she went to the dance club (maybe). Isn't happiness what we are all after?:tg:
She is very, very, truly happy.
 
C

CoKoOPERATOR

#35
#35
hjilling said:
I am sorry, but, while I am happy for your success, am I the only one here who is distressed by this?

You went through a 1 day certification audit, had little knowledge of ISO and the consultant "gave you" a QM. The auditor found one issue, and let you fix it the same day? :frust:

This does not sound like a working, effective quality management system. You merely bought a certificate. This is the type of situation that makes a mockery of the whole ISO process. It is the subject of many posts on this Cove.

I sincerely hope you truly learn ISO and build a more appropriate program over time.
Click to expand...
If the boss had dinner with the auditor ,that is not my issue. I had a great co-operation with him and helped me with some aspects of ISO that I did not analyze well.
Sidney Vianna said:
But she is very, very, very happy. And she went to the dance club (maybe). Isn't happiness what we are all after?:tg:
She is very, very, truly happy.
Click to expand...
Make that she ..... he and you will be ok !

:thanx:
 
H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#36
#36
CoKoOPERATOR said:
If the boss had dinner with the auditor ,that is not my issue. I had a great co-operation with him and helped me with some aspects of ISO that I did not analyze well.
Click to expand...
I frequently have dinner with clients. That is not an issue. And, I try to be cooperative and helpful with clients, that is also not an issue.

The issue is it is clear your system is very thin, but it passed. And the audit was incredibly short. These factors raise some serious issues.

I just hope over time you can develop your system to an appropriate level. These stories often don't end well.
 
BradM

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#38
#38
hjilling said:
The issue is it is clear your system is very thin, but it passed. And the audit was incredibly short. These factors raise some serious issues.
Click to expand...
With due respect, how do any of us (other than the auditor who performed the audit) know if the system is incredibly weak or strong?
I am not saying I agree with the auditor's findings, or that I disagree with your concern. I'm saying unless we see the system, we don't know. The OP stated the auditor seemed concerned about training. Could it be, in a 20 person organization, that was the one potential weakness?
 
H

Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#39
#39
BradM said:
With due respect, how do any of us (other than the auditor who performed the audit) know if the system is incredibly weak or strong?
I am not saying I agree with the auditor's findings, or that I disagree with your concern. I'm saying unless we see the system, we don't know. The OP stated the auditor seemed concerned about training. Could it be, in a 20 person organization, that was the one potential weakness?
Click to expand...

That is a fair criticism, and is the inherent limitation of this kind of forum. But, if you review his various posts, it was pretty clear that he (?) did not express confidence in their system, and their skill level. And the other comments suggest the consultant helped them pass an audit, and did not help them put in a solid, value added system. That is unfortunate. The goal should not be a degree, it should be an education.

That is the number one complaint about ISO. But, it's interesting, I don't hear that complaint from people who really put in the effort to create solid systems. If you do the work to put in a solid system, you deserve and will get results. If you window dress it, you don't get much but a framed certificate. Please don't post here a year later about how "ISO doesn't do anything," unless you did the work and put in a real system.


In fact, I am curious.

IS there anyone whose company put in a real system, where top management and all the levels did the real work, but you have not reaped the benefits? I am writing a paper, and would be thrilled to hear from you, if there is anyone like that out there?

Thanks,

Hjilling




Believe, I don't throw stones. I am in this business to help clients, whether I am auditing or consulting.
 
BradM

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#40
#40
Nice post.

For the most part, I agree with your logic and your opinion of the systems as a whole.

But it seems like there is a lot of complaining from all the parties involved, but no real steps for improvement. Managers not getting their money's worth, dedicated auditors angry with Drive-thru certifications, frustrated MR in the middle of things, quality pros having to "get ready" for their audits, etc.

Anyone want to tackle a Fish diagram on this one? Are there solutions on the horizon, or do we have to live with this one?
 
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