New Supplier implementation - PPAP vs APQP

adisc

Starting to get Involved
#1
Hello,

I have situation in company, where Buyers would like to implement new Supplier to deliver one of the parts to already existing project. The purpose of this change is that the current Supplier does not meet our requirements and presents very poor quality. New Supplier will have to submit proper PPAP, but I would like to know if we can only speak about PPAP regarding to the new Supplier implementation to already existing project or we can speak also about APQP process? The dimension of the new part is the same as the old one, but drawing will be slighltly different (another plans, hopefully some more dimensions added). Or maybe APQP process conerns only to the new PROJECT implementation (with all the parts coming as a 'new')? If we can speak also about APQP process, what would be a difference between APQP and PPAP in such case?

I will take the opporunity to ask one more question, not exactly connected with this topic: I believe that during APQP process each of us having very different situations - what do you do if Supplier sends a PPAP reagarding to the concrete revision, but in the meantime Customer is changing revision (but only revision, without any other characteristics) - do you accept 'old' PPAP package, but add only 'new' PSW? And what if also 'characteristics' are changed - does the 'old' PPAP package is not valid anymore and Supplier must present new documentation? Also with the new parts to be checked?

Thank you in advance.
 
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Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#2
You can qualify your new supplier any way you want. I certainly would talk about APQP things as you're currently having quality issues. What makes you think the new supplier can do any better? You better find out before you go through the trouble of a switch.

As to the second question, it would depend on what the rev change was. If it's immaterial, a simple PSW would suffice. No reason to recreate the wheel.
 

adisc

Starting to get Involved
#3
You can qualify your new supplier any way you want. I certainly would talk about APQP things as you're currently having quality issues. What makes you think the new supplier can do any better? You better find out before you go through the trouble of a switch.

As to the second question, it would depend on what the rev change was. If it's immaterial, a simple PSW would suffice. No reason to recreate the wheel.
Thank you for the answer Golfman25. Could you please let me know about APQP process in such case? How it will / should look like? What is the role of SQE in such process, except of evaluating PPAP documentation and eventual support in FAI?
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Trusted Information Resource
#4
pretty much agreeing with Golfman25...if its an automotive part/customer, etc., the SQE, Release Engineer and project repsonsible have latitude as to what the PPAP must consist of...and if the difference are its immaterial (no impact to FFF), then as Golfman25 states a PSW to address this may work
 

adisc

Starting to get Involved
#5
OK, thanks. What about differences between APQP and PPAP in this case? As I understand APQP process it is more flexible, but what role of SQE is in that?
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#6
Thank you for the answer Golfman25. Could you please let me know about APQP process in such case? How it will / should look like? What is the role of SQE in such process, except of evaluating PPAP documentation and eventual support in FAI?
So I have had customers come to us and say "can you do this, our current supplier sucks." We look at it and after an honest exchange I can say yes we can or no we cant. If it's a design or tooling type flaw, the same laws of physics apply in my shop so it's unlikely we can do any different without some changes. So you want to be honest about what the quality issues are with the new supplier and as part of the APQP process see if they can be fixed.
 

ncwalker

Trusted Information Resource
#7
To answer the question about APQP and PPAP:

APQP = Advanced Product Quality Planning
In the sense of the definition, Advanced being interpreted as "ahead of time" not the alternate definition of "complex". The APQP process is the outline of steps from the point of being awarded a job (a new product, taking over a job from another supplier, a new revision) that get you from the point of receiving a PO all the way to start of production.

PPAP = Production Part Approval Process
Focus on "Production." It does not answer the question "does the design work?" That's a different animal. The PPAP process is a means to approve the system or value stream that makes the Production Part.

They are different things, but not equivalent things. The PPAP is a piece of the APQP process. It's the capstone, how you prove you did it.
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
Trusted Information Resource
#9
Roger that one of many pieces...and an important or key milestone/gate to achieving "launch nirvana"
 

John Predmore

Quite Involved in Discussions
#10
What about differences between APQP and PPAP?
I worked 30 years in automotive and prepared or reviewed thousands of PPAP documents and conducted APQP under QS9000. Now I work in aerospace industry.

I wanted to share that the aerospace industry quality group IAQG (the counterpart to AIAG for the auto industry) is developing their own version of APQP. I think anyone interested in advancing quality can register as a member of IAQG at IAQG: Organization .

There are some excellent free training powerpoint slides and webinars in the IAQG Supply Chain Management Handbook. (I think you still have to pay for AIAG manuals. ) You do have to register for access to SCMH and agree to abide by their policy on intellectual property, but nothing overly exclusionary in the registration process.

The aerospace version of PPAP, AS-9102, is called First Article Inspection, which has a different look and feel from the AIAG PPAP. But the first edition of PPAP manual was printed in 1993 and there has been a lot of evolution in quality thinking in 25 years.
 
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