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New version of OHSAS 18001

#71
Samsung, thank you to remember one of my comments (required regulations and our procedures can not be him otherwise). I agree with your proposal to use more directly the legal requirements themselves. Besides my business I often structure my procedures in a manner closest possible regulatory application process.

And I'm going even further with this thought: for example in Europe the legal guidelines * H & S is in fact a true OHSMS! So my question is "why use a standard voluntary OHSMS (national or international) and content actually quite general, while we often have legal standards mandatory and the contents much better developed that a standard of some pages?

* I think all the regulatory systems of major countries are well structured and "enough"!

What do you think of this ?
 
S

samsung

#72
Samsung, thank you to remember one of my comments (required regulations and our procedures can not be him otherwise). I agree with your proposal to use more directly the legal requirements themselves. Besides my business I often structure my procedures in a manner closest possible regulatory application process.

And I'm going even further with this thought: for example in Europe the legal guidelines * H & S is in fact a true OHSMS! So my question is "why use a standard voluntary OHSMS (national or international) and content actually quite general, while we often have legal standards mandatory and the contents much better developed that a standard of some pages?

* I think all the regulatory systems of major countries are well structured and "enough"!

What do you think of this ?
Yes, I agree to your statement that all the national health & safety laws do contain all the information (especially what & how to) to manage health & safety at the workplace yet the standards do have their significance with which they add value and consistency to what our regulations require us to do. The key variables that necessitate adoption of OHS management systems, despite having all H&S regulations in place, are:

1. These standards provide a framework for implementation of the OH&S policy and continual improvement of the organization's OHS performance by way of objective setting, audits, management reviews, CA & PA processes, evaluation of the effectiveness of the control measures etc.

2. They also provide not only an excellent framework for Hazard & Risk management but also ensure consistent reduction in significant hazards (while the regulations only require them to be 'controlled' within the legislative framework. OHSAS or any other OHS standard goes beyond the legislative requirements)

3. These standards require the organizations no only to comply with all the applicable H&S laws but to manage their legal compliance evaluation process in a robust and structured manner to avoid any non-compliance and thus risk to business.

4. The standards, by way of their certification to external agencies, bring sufficient confidence among the stakeholders with which they tend to associate with the organization.

Here's a paragraph from the 'introduction' portion of OHSAS 18001
Many organizations have undertaken OH&S “reviews” or “audits” to assess their OH&S performance. On their own, however, these “reviews” and "audits” may not be sufficient to provide an organization with the assurance that its performance not only meets, but will continue to meet, its legal and policy requirements. To be effective, they need to be conducted within a structured management system that is integrated within the organization.
There can be more reasons for adoption of such standards, yet right at the moment I can recall this much.
 
#73
Hi again Samsung !

Together we can hardly discuss the specific contents of European regulations* (or particularly those arising in my country, France) but I can assure you that there are similar requirements as your points 1-3.
* And I find it equally difficult to begin your own rules ...

About your point 4, the rates of accidents or occupational illnesses or the visit of a company tells me 100 more than its eventual OHSMS certificate ! With this certificate I do know two things: the OHSMS standard used by the company and the date of his certification ... but I know nothing about the actual H&S working conditions of its employees...

You quoted a passage from the introduction of the OHSMS British standard, I exchanged it to you with this excerpt from the international standard ILO-OSH (my own preference) :

1.1. These guidelines should contribute to the protection of workers from hazards and to the elimination of work-related injuries, ill health, diseases, incidents and deaths.
1.2. At national level, the guidelines should:
(a) be used to establish a national framework for OSH management systems, preferably supported by national laws and regulations;
(b) provide guidance for the development of voluntary arrangements to strengthen compliance with regulations and standards leading to continual improvement in OSH performance; and
(c) provide guidance on the development of both national and tailored guidelines on OSH management systems to respond appropriately to the real needs of organizations, according to their size and the nature of their activities.
1.3. At the level of the organization, the guidelines are intended to:
(a) provide guidance regarding the integration of OSH management system elements in the organization as a component of policy and management arrangements; and
(b) motivate all members of the organization, particularly employers, owners, managerial staff, workers and their representatives, in applying appropriate OSH management principles and methods to continually improve OSH performance.


Thanks.
 
S

samsung

#74
About your point 4, the rates of accidents or occupational illnesses or the visit of a company tells me 100 more than its eventual OHSMS certificate ! With this certificate I do know two things: the OHSMS standard used by the company and the date of his certification ... but I know nothing about the actual H&S working conditions of its employees...
My point w.r.t. certification was only to highlight the declaration of the 'compliance status' of the organization to the requirements of an international standard by an accreditated agency. The certification, as a minimum, ensures

a) that the organization has established & implemented a H&S Policy & an OHSMS in conformance with an international standard. (Although establishing H&S policy is a legal requirement in almost all the countries),

b) that the organization complies with (or has a system to comply with) the applicable legal requirements pertaining to H&S of the employees & others,

c) that the organization has a system to continually improve it's OHS performance

d) that the OHS performance is periodically audited & reviewed and actions are taken /attempts are made to further improve it.

Although, all the above features can be developed even without having a certificate, yet the 'certification' (if granted after a 'real' audit) itself speaks of the 'working conditions' of the employees which are largely governed (in every country) by the local legislation and the auditor, as a minimum, has to verify if those requirements are being complied with or not.

1.1. These guidelines should contribute to the protection of workers from hazards and to the elimination of work-related injuries, ill health, diseases, incidents and deaths.

1.3. At the level of the organization, the guidelines are intended to:
(a) provide guidance regarding the integration of OSH management system elements in the organization as a component of policy and management arrangements; and

(b) motivate all members of the organization, particularly employers, owners, managerial staff, workers and their representatives, in applying appropriate OSH management principles and methods to continually improve OSH performance.
The excerpts from the ILO-OHS Guidelines, as mentioned above, also signify the need for adoption (not necessarily certification) of a robust OHS management system capable to

i) motivate the people at all levels to achieve the organization's OHS commitments

ii) apply appropriate tools (monitoring & measurement systems, audits, reviews, CA / PA etc.) to continually improve the organization's OHS performance in terms of managing or mitigating the OHS risks in measurable terms or atleast maintaining the 'acceptable level' of OHS performance.

Thanks.
 
#75
Hello

I'm really sorry to contradict you Samsung. But merely a certificate attests only that the management system of the audited conpany is compliant to the chosen MS standard ! Contrary to what you say, the certificate does not absolutely certify for example the organization complies with the OSH applicable legal requirements in the country... This is false. Certification does not certify any "performance" (legal or other) !

So I'm launching a challenge to you : can you copy here and show us the main content of your certification to the british standard OHSAS 18001 ? And we will analyze together what he says.

A soon.
 
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goetzkluge

Starting to get Involved
#76
...

And I'm going even further with this thought: for example in Europe the legal guidelines * H & S is in fact a true OHSMS! So my question is "why use a standard voluntary OHSMS (national or international) and content actually quite general, while we often have legal standards mandatory and the contents much better developed that a standard of some pages?

* I think all the regulatory systems of major countries are well structured and "enough"!

What do you think of this ?
OHSAS 18001 goes beyond regional rules, not only i.e. in Bangladesh, but also in Germany. In the German laws on workers' co-determination you won't find the requirement for consultations with employees (employee representatives) in case the employer wants to change OH&S regulations (see 4.4.3.2 in OHSAS 18001:2007).

More important: OHSAS 18001 is about organizing an OH&S management system. Laws can't help here.

In Germany, employers can ignore the laws and regulations on co-determination if the works councils in their sites are weak. But good works councils can cope with that. Also here a standard can help. Employees (employee representatives) who detect deviations from OHSAS 18001 in certified company sites can get the German accreditation body (DAkkS) and the responsible certification body involved instead of suing the employer.

Members of the works councils have the right to get trainings for OHSAS 18001. The employer has to pay for that. Employee representatives even can strive for a certification to perform internal audits (ISO 19011).

By the way, as for "New version of OHSAS 18001", I do not believe that there will be any. It seems that in around 2017, OHSAS 18001 may be followed by ISO 45001. As far as I understand, that standard would build on OHSAS 18001.

Best regards from Germany
Goetz
 
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L

LyndaK

#77
The new standard for Health and Safety to replace OHSAS 18001 will be ISO 45001 to be issued Q4 2016 this will be bringing the standard in line with ISO 9001 and ISO 14001, this means that revisions are being made to all 3 standards :D
 

goetzkluge

Starting to get Involved
#78
The new standard for Health and Safety to replace OHSAS 18001 will be ISO 45001 to be issued Q4 2016 this will be bringing the standard in line with ISO 9001 and ISO 14001, this means that revisions are being made to all 3 standards :D
Let's hope, they keep that schedule. I am curious, how the employees' participation will look like in ISO 45001.

If the development of ISO 45001 would affect ISO 9001 and ISO 14001, then it perhaps will also affect ISO 50001.
 
#79
Lindak, ISO 45001 will not replace BS OHSAS 18001. Because ISO 45001 will be a ISO creation, but CSA Z1000, BS OHSAS 18001, BS OHSAS 1804, ANSI Z10, GOSH..., AS/NZ..., etc, are national OSHMS standards. Bye.
 
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