New website for AIAO-BAR - Unaccredited Accreditation Body

B

Boingo-boingo

#1
As unaccredited registrars are getting exposed for their misdeeds, some of them are seeking pseudo accreditation via pseudo AB's, such as AIAO-BAR.

One of the CB's certificate of accreditation is available below. These organizations are so pathetic that they don't even bother referencing the version of the standards they are accredited for, are so ignorant that list standards that don't exist such as ISO 18001, AS991 etc...

Someone should call and question their chairman and ask who's given them authoritative role to be an AB and what is the process they use to oversee the CB's they accredit and the qualifications of their auditors, if they exist, there is.

Leo Shabalin, Chairman of the Board
American International Accreditiation Organization, Inc.
201 Los Gatos Saratoga Rd., Suite 144
Los Gatos, CA 95030

Tel : 508 - 577 - 4155

 
Last edited by a moderator:
R

RootCausePractioner

#5
Please explain how AIAO-BAR is unaccredited?

Coincidentally, isn't the current chair of the IAF, Mr. Randy Doherty, the Vice President of ANAB? Thus, the person in charge of the accreditation body trade organization, responsible for mandating the rules imposed by IAF member accreditation bodies on registrars they accredit (such as on-site minimum man-day requirements) is the Vice President of the accreditation body ANAB, whose sole financial support is derived from fees charged to the registrars they accredit. Isn't that a problem?

Several of the more than 150 accreditation organizations worldwide were chartered or established and/or regulated by governmental agencies within the country of their operations. In the United States this is not the case. ANAB (formerly the Registrar Accreditation Board (RAB) a division of the American Society for Quality (ASQ) a trade group of Quality Professionals headquartered in Milwaukee, WI; through a series of events and US governmental disinterest became a “default” accreditation body in the United States in the mid 1990’s.

In an effort to provide legitimacy other than the “default” status to their organization, and lacking any governmental authorization or charter- ANAB became the driving force behind the formation of the International Accreditation Forum (IAF) and the implementation of a Multi-Lateral Agreement (MLA) that provides that IAF signatory members recognize each others IAF members “accredited registrars” certificates.

ANAB is one of approximately 45 accreditation organizations (of over 150) worldwide that belong to the IAF. To emphasize the involvement of ANAB in the creation of the IAF it is interesting to note that the financial controller for the IAF is also the controller for ANAB and to join the IAF, accreditation bodies were required to send IAF application and dues payments to the same address as ANAB in Milwaukee, WI. This was the case when AIAO-BAR looked into joining and participating in the IAF, and decided not to participate.

Thousands of certificates have been issued by registrars with accreditation body “marks” from accreditation bodies who are not members of the IAF to those certified companies unwilling to pay the extra fee for an “ IAF accredited certificate.”

Independent accreditation bodies provide accreditation services by utilizing the same ISO standards and requirements, but without participating in the MLA required by membership in the IAF.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
B

Boingo-boingo

#6
Please explain how AIAO-BAR is uncredited?
Accreditation Bodies are not accredited just like certification bodies are not certified, but accredited, instead.

The question is: who gives the AIAO-BAR the authoritative role as an accreditation body? In the case of ANAB, the IAF (and Industry stakeholders) does that. Anyone can self appoint themselves as an accreditation/certification, but what gives them legitimacy?

AIAO-BAR might claim they follow ISO 17011. Prove it!

ANAB can show evidence they undergo a peer review to ISO 17011 and Industry oversight to make the claim.

As clearly exemplified, an AB that commits so basic and blatant mistakes in a certificate of accreditation, should have their seriousness questioned.
 
R

RootCausePractioner

#7
Regarding your point about being "so ignorant that list standards that don't exist such as ISO 18001, AS991 etc..."

Why then has the ISO organization published ISO/IEC TR 18001:2004?

ISO/IEC TR 18001:2004 - Information technology -- Radio frequency identification for item management -- Application requirements profiles
From ISO website. Post won't let me put in link.

I agree that AS991 looks like a typo for AS9110.

It looks like they fixed it. See Universal Registrars website. Post would not let me put link in.

I am just doing simple searches with google to get this info.
AIAO-BAR - who has accredited registrars: WRG (@wrgsert.com, BMQR ISO Certifications Private Limited, PSAcertification. (links removed)

I am just copying and pasting here and looking at the websites. Are you saying these ISO registrars are somehow inferior in understanding quality management systems? They are not as serious?

In your title you stated that AIAO-BAR was an Unaccredited Accreditation body. When I asked how, you seemed back off in your reply in that was not possible.

Honestly, the main concern you noted about AIAO-BAR regarding conflict of interest looks to me as nearly identical to ANAB and IAF relationship.

I agree there needs to be separation. I do not understand how the pot can call the kettle black.
 
B

Boingo-boingo

#8
Why then has the ISO organization published ISO/IEC TR 18001:2004?

ISO/IEC TR 18001:2004 - Information technology -- Radio frequency identification for item management -- Application requirements profiles
Do you really think that that is the ISO 18001 standard that they wanted to mention? It was OBVIOUSLY a botched attempt to say OHSAS 18001.

While we are at it, can you disclose your affiliation with the AB at hand? You are trying to make a case that their accreditation program is equivalent to ANAB, UKAS, RvA, etc... only suckers and ignorant easy prey uninformed parties would fall for that.

I am just copying and pasting here and looking at the websites. Are you saying these ISO registrars are somehow inferior in understanding quality management systems? They are not as serious?
There is no such a thing as an ISO Registrar. Big misnomor. As for the caliber of the registrars accredited under this pseudo accreditation scheme, I have no idea, but the cliche' applies: show me who you associate with and I will tell you who you are.

In your title you stated that AIAO-BAR was an Unaccredited Accreditation body. When I asked how, you seemed back off in your reply in that was not possible.
When I created this thread, the title was different. Someone must have edited the title of the thread. But one thing is clear: accreditation bodies are not accredited.

Honestly, the main concern you noted about AIAO-BAR regarding conflict of interest looks to me as nearly identical to ANAB and IAF relationship.

I agree there needs to be separation. I do not understand how the pot can call the kettle black.
No, my main concern is that this pseudo accreditation scheme was only developed so some CB's could claim to be "accredited", but while the IAF process is somewhat opaque, this pseudo AB has ZERO transparency. As I challenged you before. Prove that this AB invokes and applies ISO 17011 to themselves and ISO 17021, IATF Rules, AS9104/1, etc... to their AB's.
 

Marc

Captain Nice
Staff member
Admin
#9
Thread Title Edited 00:24, 19th Apr 2013 by Marc - Original thread title 'New website for AIAO-BAR - AB for suckers' changed

I changed it for a reason. The original, in my opinion, was a bit harsh. Maybe I didn't phrase it as it should be.

Also - To all who participate in this thread - Please keep personal "darts" out of it. Please keep it professional.

Thanks.
 
R

RootCausePractioner

#10
1. I have no idea what they meant. My point is that there is an ISO 18001 which you claimed there was not.

2. ISO XXXXX Registrars. Fine. But that wasn't the point was it? Are you saying these companies are somehow inferior in their process? Somehow their customers have inferior management systems? Why the Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt? That's your point?

IQNET is also an organization offering world wide accreditation recognition similar to IAF and is comprised of 37+ independent registrar organizations with 300,000+ certificates issued or 30% of the world wide market. How do they rate? Or the IAB in the U.K.?

3. Okay. I didn't know anything about how the title changed.

4. Why are you challenging me? The "the IAF process is somewhat opaque"? Wow. That is the baseline for superior quality? A somewhat opaque process?

I am not with AIAO-BAR or AGS or WRG or .... I DO have a friend that is AGS certified and frankly his quality management system is more solid and has more process maturity and rigor than the one we implemented using ANAB and IAF backing. I do not think him a fool. I think you have an agenda that pretends to offer a difference in quality by using name calling.

Here is my null hypothesis: This post is about money and not quality.

ANAB (like all accreditation bodies) derives their revenue from registrar application and yearly auditing fees. These fees range from a low of $50,000--$60,000+ USD for a small registrar to hundreds of thousands to more than $1,000,000 dollars annually for registrars with multiple locations and hundreds of issued certificates.

The accreditation bodies also require the registrars they accredit to pay a percentage of the registrars total annual revenue, typically 10-20% for the “licensing” of the respective accreditation organization “marks” to registrars. Registrars then print these accreditation body “marks” on the certificates they issue to companies they certify to add a level of “authenticity” or “mutual recognition” to the certificate.

The fees ANAB collects from registrars they have accredited are at least several million.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Top Bottom