No Calibration Due Date on a Calibration Certificate unless requested by a customer?

ScottBP

Involved In Discussions
#1
An auditor wrote up a finding during a recent audit, because we put a due date on a certificate for an item that we calibrated for an external customer, but couldn't provide evidence that the customer requested that due date.

Now we have another customer that didn't say anything about a due date on their service request, so we asked them and they didn't know (actually it sparked a bit of a controversy).

What's the best way to advise our customers that if they don't specify a due date, they won't get one on their certificate? Would we be covered if we suggested a due date and they agreed to it in writing?
 
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Mikishots

Trusted Information Resource
#2
Re: No due date unless requested by the customer?

An auditor wrote up a finding during a recent audit, because we put a due date on a certificate for an item that we calibrated for an external customer, but couldn't provide evidence that the customer requested that due date.

Now we have another customer that didn't say anything about a due date on their service request, so we asked them and they didn't know (actually it sparked a bit of a controversy).

What's the best way to advise our customers that if they don't specify a due date, they won't get one on their certificate? Would we be covered if we suggested a due date and they agreed to it in writing?
I'd be curious as to the exact wording of that finding, and which standard clause was said to be violated. Are you able to share?
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: No due date unless requested by the customer?

Scott, are you doing work against 17025? I believe there is a clause in there. I'll look.
 

Michael_M

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: No due date unless requested by the customer?

When I send thread gauges out for calibration, the company had a checklist (Company general, not for each specific gauge). One of the options was calibration cycle, if none were checked, it states that calibration will default to 12 months.

Could you use something like this. Have a single form for each customer with the option for calibration interval or if none are chosen, it automatically defaults to #####
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#5
Re: No due date unless requested by the customer?

IS0 17025 5.10.4.4. covers the due date.

However... not sure if this helps:

http://www.a2la.org/faq/printable17025explain.cfm


Our calibration laboratory is ?captive? and part of a larger original equipment manufacturer (OEM). The items manufactured by our company are accompanied by a calibration certificate generated from our laboratory, however the recipient of this equipment is not known at the time of calibration. Our company would like for us to include a recalibration interval on the calibration certificates, but since the ultimate recipient of the equipment is not known, we cannot obtain their prior approval to include this interval. Is it still alright for us to include it on the calibration certificate? 12/06/2007
5.10.4.4
2005

In the case of captive or internal laboratories, the ?customer? is most often considered to be another department within the larger, overall organization. As long as there is a documented understanding and approval from that other department within the organization, then the laboratory may include a recalibration interval on the calibration certificates that they issue to that department. If the cal certs are ultimately intended to meet the A2LA Policy on Measurement Traceability (P102), then they must be appropriately endorsed and must meet all ISO/IEC 17025 requirements. If the OEM intends for their equipment to meet P102 when it is ultimately sold to their customers, then they must include the original, unaltered and endorsed calibration certificates with the equipment.
 

Hershal

Metrologist-Auditor
Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Re: No Calibration Due Date on a Calibration Certificate unless requested by a custom

An auditor wrote up a finding during a recent audit, because we put a due date on a certificate for an item that we calibrated for an external customer, but couldn't provide evidence that the customer requested that due date.

Now we have another customer that didn't say anything about a due date on their service request, so we asked them and they didn't know (actually it sparked a bit of a controversy).

What's the best way to advise our customers that if they don't specify a due date, they won't get one on their certificate? Would we be covered if we suggested a due date and they agreed to it in writing?
Scott, simply put, you can SUGGEST any cal cycle - BUT - if issued as an accredited certificate, then the cal lab should not put a recall date unless agreed by the customer.

Hope this helps.
 
D

dv8shane

#7
Re: No Calibration Due Date on a Calibration Certificate unless requested by a custom

An auditor wrote up a finding during a recent audit, because we put a due date on a certificate for an item that we calibrated for an external customer, but couldn't provide evidence that the customer requested that due date.

Now we have another customer that didn't say anything about a due date on their service request, so we asked them and they didn't know (actually it sparked a bit of a controversy).

What's the best way to advise our customers that if they don't specify a due date, they won't get one on their certificate? Would we be covered if we suggested a due date and they agreed to it in writing?
If you do written quotes as part of contract review, you could state" that unless requested otherwise by the customer the standard manufacturers recommended interval will be used". Once they sign off on the quote your covered.
 
H

Hanr3

#8
Re: No Calibration Due Date on a Calibration Certificate unless requested by a custom

An auditor wrote up a finding during a recent audit, because we put a due date on a certificate for an item that we calibrated for an external customer, but couldn't provide evidence that the customer requested that due date.

Now we have another customer that didn't say anything about a due date on their service request, so we asked them and they didn't know (actually it sparked a bit of a controversy).

What's the best way to advise our customers that if they don't specify a due date, they won't get one on their certificate? Would we be covered if we suggested a due date and they agreed to it in writing?
Does the customer know what the calibration interval should be for thier application?
Do they understand calibration interval? Some customers don't understand and expect you to know the answer, your the expert they hired.
Do they verify that the current calibration interval is acceptable?

How do you put a cal due date without knowing thier process/application? You can recommend one, but what are you using for the basis of your recommendation? Industry standard? History? The best basis is statistical data. Do you have that data for their application?
Yes, you need to have a conversation with your customers and you need to document the customers requirements. There are numerous ways to document this information, and several have been posted. Realize, there are customers out there who know they need 17025 Certified equipment, however they have no clue what that means. The person cutting the po, may not be the one who has the need.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: No Calibration Due Date on a Calibration Certificate unless requested by a custom

An auditor wrote up a finding during a recent audit, because we put a due date on a certificate for an item that we calibrated for an external customer, but couldn't provide evidence that the customer requested that due date.

Now we have another customer that didn't say anything about a due date on their service request, so we asked them and they didn't know (actually it sparked a bit of a controversy).

What's the best way to advise our customers that if they don't specify a due date, they won't get one on their certificate? Would we be covered if we suggested a due date and they agreed to it in writing?
ScottBP,

As a cal lab, specifying the "due date" or reporting the "as-received condition" are both additional services for which you can charge your customers.

Even if the customer does not realize this, the customer relies on their cal lab (as the expert in the relationship) to determine if these additional services are required.

The due date may be determined arbitrarily or as a result of a study (based on a history of as-found condition reports). Again these are opportunities for the cal lab to sell further services according to the needs of their customer.

Best wishes,

John
 
O

oldcodger

#10
Re: No Calibration Due Date on a Calibration Certificate unless requested by a custom

Do you have gauges like the ones that were lent to you by your customers? If your customer wiil not specify the number of days between calibration, document their refusal and calibrate their gauges on a similar schedule as your own gauges--and of course document the calibration.
 
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