No Changes in the QMS since last audit - Need to Re-audit for coming Surveillance?

D

dave_m123

#1
Hi all,

I work for a small company of only around 3-4 people and last September we achieved ISO 9001 accreditation. I'm currently working through an internal audit in preparation for our surveillance audit which is soon. Since our last internal audit we've had no changes so far to the QMS system.

So I'm wondering would it be appropiate to refer back to previous audits done and state in the audits that at this time the state of this particular area of the system is what it was at the time of the previous audit and then refer to that particular audit: for example refer to audit number 1!!

Or should I just reaudit the entire thing? It just seems extra pointless work if no changes have been as the audit should come out the same as before...but I'm a newbie at this so any help and guidance would be much appreciated :thanx:

Thanks
Dave :)
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Re: Internal Audit Question

No, you can't claim the results of the last audit for this audit - although I like the idea!:notme:

You say nothing's changed since last September? Really? So, if the quality system hasn't changed, has anything changed in the business? New customers/requirements? New suppliers? Has anyone changed roles? Are any of the processes causing less that satisfactory performance or even customers to take note?

These are all good reasons to do an audit. You shouldn't be auditing the whole system every time you do an audit, it can be a smaller, more focused one each time (tho' more frequently).

Tell us more about what's really been going on. I can't believe than 'nothing's changed'............;)
 
D

dave_m123

#3
Re: Internal Audit Question

No, you can't claim the results of the last audit for this audit - although I like the idea!:notme:

You say nothing's changed since last September? Really? So, if the quality system hasn't changed, has anything changed in the business? New customers/requirements? New suppliers? Has anyone changed roles? Are any of the processes causing less that satisfactory performance or even customers to take note?

These are all good reasons to do an audit. You shouldn't be auditing the whole system every time you do an audit, it can be a smaller, more focused one each time (tho' more frequently).

Tell us more about what's really been going on. I can't believe than 'nothing's changed'............;)
We have the odd new supplier/customer. Roles are the same except we have taken on a new guy. We've had around one complaint (and it was the customers fault!!) in the last few years so we've not had much reason to start changing how we do things to improve ourselves to respond to complaints/concerns from customers.

We had a quality consultant come in middle of last year to help us achieve accreditation and he put us on a 6 month timetable for a complete system audit which seems a little much as there are many areas I can't claim a change has occured. I'm kinda catching up on the audits that were due in Jan/Feb at the moment :nope:

I expect more to be changing in the future as we are taking on more work now and potentially expanding in the near future to different areas but during Jan/Feb we were pretty much at same state as we were when we achieved accreditation in September/

Thanks!!:tg:
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#4
Re: Internal Audit Question

We have the odd new supplier/customer. Roles are the same except we have taken on a new guy. We've had around one complaint (and it was the customers fault!!) in the last few years so we've not had much reason to start changing how we do things to improve ourselves to respond to complaints/concerns from customers.

We had a quality consultant come in middle of last year to help us achieve accreditation and he put us on a 6 month timetable for a complete system audit which seems a little much as there are many areas I can't claim a change has occured. I'm kinda catching up on the audits that were due in Jan/Feb at the moment :nope:

I expect more to be changing in the future as we are taking on more work now and potentially expanding in the near future to different areas but during Jan/Feb we were pretty much at same state as we were when we achieved accreditation in September/

Thanks!!:tg:
Dave,

A few questions to ponder....
  • Can you demonstrate that your quality system has improved?
  • Can you demonstrate that the "new guy" is competent?
  • Can you demonstrate that your suppliers perform per your requirements?
  • Can you demonstrate that Management reviews were held, and that these led to decisions and actions related to improvement of the quality system and product?
Just a few that you should audit and verify.....

Stijloor.
 
#5
Re: Internal Audit Question

Good audit notes include showing the actual paperwork that you reviewed and the actual person that you interviewed. It is not likely that you reviewed the same purchase orders, packing lists, and so on that you did last time around.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Trusted Information Resource
#6
Re: Internal Audit Question

If your business management system has not changed, and all is going steady (mature system) you still need to be able to show improvement. That being said, if the business is running smoothly with few changes, it should not take long to perform the audits, so do them. You choose the schedule, so set it up so that it works for you.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Trusted Information Resource
#7
Re: Internal Audit Question

I have moved this post to this forum, since it is asking an Internal Audit question.
 
D

dave_m123

#8
Re: Internal Audit Question

Dave,

A few questions to ponder....
  • Can you demonstrate that your quality system has improved?
  • Can you demonstrate that the "new guy" is competent?
  • Can you demonstrate that your suppliers perform per your requirements?
  • Can you demonstrate that Management reviews were held, and that these led to decisions and actions related to improvement of the quality system and product?
Just a few that you should audit and verify.....

Stijloor.
I can do all these. Should I do it all though even if I'm just repeating myself? This was all done when the audits were originally performed the first time.
 

Stijloor

Leader
Super Moderator
#9
Re: Internal Audit Question

I can do all these. Should I do it all though even if I'm just repeating myself? This was all done when the audits were originally performed the first time.
Dave, I think you're missing the point. Auditing is about the current status of your quality management system, not necessarily about what was in place then. Things will and do change over time; some for the good (improvement), some for the "bad" (deterioration).

That's what you must verify.

Stijloor.
 
D

dave_m123

#10
Re: Internal Audit Question

Dave, I think you're missing the point. Auditing is about the current status of your quality management system, not necessarily about what was in place then. Things will and do change over time; some for the good (improvement), some for the "bad" (deterioration).

That's what you must verify.

Stijloor.
Hmmm I see your point. I should go through all of the audits again and ignore the whats gone before stuff.


Ta
 
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