No drawings, no measurements from Customer - How can we do PPAP?

G

Geishy

#11
Merci beaucoup de te donner cette peine de traduire ton texte en français, c'est très gentil! :eek: :thanks:

Thanks also for the address, I will surely order the new edition of the PPAP.

Have a nice day ! :bigwave:
 
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T

TownDawg

#12
Wes Bucey: Non, je souhaite. Je ne sais aucune de la langue française du tout. J'ai pris une chance ai laissé la prise du babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com) un projectile à lui.


Geishy: Vous êtes la plupart de bienvenue. Je ne prétendrai pas être un expert en PPAPs, mais j'ai soumis un certain nombre au cours des années. Sentez-vous libre pour rester en contact si je peux aider !
 
T

TownDawg

#13
* smiles *

I loved taking the French translation, and pushing it back through Babelfish.

"Not, I wish. I do not know any the French language of the whole. I've taken a chance left the catch of the babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com) a projectile with him."

That's not exactly what I said. I said, "I took a shot at letting Babelfish do the translation.".. instead it sounds like I had a good day fishing using a large cannon and a net!

;)

Let's see how the other one came out.

"You are the majority of welcome. I will not claim to be an expert in PPAPs, but subjected a certain number during years. Feel you free to remain in contact if I can help!"

That's not exactly what I said either. (lol).. I said, "You are most welcome... and that I could almost do PPAPs in my sleep." Well, something like that. You got to LOVE the slang of the English language.

Je pourrais presque faire PPAPs dans mon sommeil.
 
S

SteelWoman

#14
I have a similar situation right now (I'm literally working on the ppap this minute!) where a customer required a level 4 ppap, but they submitted the steel to us, it is customer owned, and the only thing we did to it is slit it to width. So we are submitting a ppap for the part of the this job that we "made" - which is slit width ONLY, and do a quick cap study on width only. They key is we submit a checklist to the customer PRIOR to the ppap submission that includes all the normal parts of a ppap and has "not applicable" or "not required of raw material suppliers" on the parts that just don't apply to this ppap. The customer has to sign off on this form and thus we reach agreement about what will/will not be submitted BEFORE I submit the ppap.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#15
TownDawg said:
Wes Bucey: Non, je souhaite. Je ne sais aucune de la langue française du tout. J'ai pris une chance ai laissé la prise du babelfish (http://babelfish.altavista.com) un projectile à lui.


Geishy: Vous êtes la plupart de bienvenue. Je ne prétendrai pas être un expert en PPAPs, mais j'ai soumis un certain nombre au cours des années. Sentez-vous libre pour rester en contact si je peux aider !
Regardez mon sourire géant! biggrin-a1.gif
OBVIOUSLY - great minds think alike. Our posts must have been nearly simultaneous!
Regardez!
Great shortcut! Have you tried running the result backward through the service? (Once you have the French translation, run it back to be translated into English - the result may stun you. Don't get excited. It's because idioms don't translate well.) I often use this service when my vocabulary limits are reached in the foreign language. The sad fact is English has a much richer vocabulary than other languages (because it borrows so much from other tongues) However, nuances and idioms which seem pleasant in English can be downright rude in translation. A thesaurus doesn't tell you when a synonym is rude or pejorative. *Compare "défécation" to "merde"

Idioms will destroy you. If you use the service, try running the phrases back and forth a few times, substituting words until the replay comes back in a clear manner.
 
Last edited:
T

TownDawg

#16
SteelWoman: Your situation is definitely different. It would be really redundant to submit a PPAP to your customer when your customer is also your supplier.

;)

I just thought that Geisha sounded like someone JUST getting started with the PPAP process in a company that apparently "does everything with a handshake and a smile." All good points made thus far.

A customer has the right to request a PPAP for any product submitted to them at launch or during E/Cs. All of the International Standards would agree that we are ultimately responsible for any of our suppliers. That's why we request PPAPs from our suppliers, so that we can include some of their documentation in our PPAP submission to OUR customer. Just as we conduct audits to verify that our suppliers have good processes in place, we request PPAPs often to find out what those (same good) processes are.
 

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#17
SteelWoman said:
They key is we submit a checklist to the customer PRIOR to the ppap submission that includes all the normal parts of a ppap and has "not applicable" or "not required of raw material suppliers" on the parts that just don't apply to this ppap. The customer has to sign off on this form and thus we reach agreement about what will/will not be submitted BEFORE I submit the ppap.
I highly recommend this approach.
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#18
Geishy
First off - Let me welcome you to the Cove :bigwave:

Once you receive your "3rd edition", please remember that a "Level 4" only means your customer doesn't require all the documentation sent to them. You still must address all 19 elements (and your customer may have a couple "extra" :frust: ) on Page 16 and have it ready and current if they should need/request to see it.
 
G

Geishy

#19
I see that French amuses sometimes, the translation is difficult starting from tools Internet. I acknowledges to use one of them regularly (google), but I must also re-examine the translation because the tools translate word for word and sometimes, the translation is odd! :lmao:

I understand that I must answer the criteria required by the customer and that this one requires to answer Level 4. But in spite of that, I cannot definitively carry out all he asks for the parts that we produces for this customer, we do not have any drawing, thus the specifications are only estetic. Therefore, I cannot meet all his requests and it knows it!

Were somebody already been in this situation? I have 3 PPAP for 3 different parts to make by Friday and I must be certain of what I do before giving the documents to him!

Thank you in advance.. once again! :)
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#20
Geishy said:
Now for my question, my customer ask me to submit PPAP packages for part number that we ship to them (we produce plastic parts for compagnie doing job for car compagnie). The pieces that we produce for them have no drawing so, any measurements are possible. But the ask us for inspection results, process capability results and gage studies!! where can I get these kind of information??

I did make a part submission warrant, an appearance approval report, process control plan and a FMEA but, what else can I do!??

Thank your for your patience..
:thanx:
Do they actual ask for
But the ask us for inspection results, process capability results and gage studies!!
or do you just assume it from your knowledge?
Please see the attached document for the documents needed to submit for the different levels.
Level 4 PPAP is the warrant and any thing else he asks for not what you think to submit.

On the PSW you are supposed to put the drawing number- if there is none then write-NONE.
Have you a written request for other documents, if so ask in writing for the drawing to reference.
Make him do the work.
To get you out of your situation
Send him the warrant and complete the rest later.

This is of course not the approved manner but..
 

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