No editable (alterable) raw data from outside calibration laboratory?

DietCokeofEvil

Trusted Information Resource
#11
Depending on your cal cycle, you may be asking the impossible.

To accumulate data for 1000 gages for say, 4-5 years and possibly up to 10 is a huge consumption of man hours.

Also, I don't think an outside source that is not familiar with how you use your gages can offer a trend analysis. They don't know how often you use your gages, or any other factors that could affect them: storage, training of the people using the gages etc. They can tell you what THEY see in the gage over the last 10 calibrations, but I feel it would be meaningless without context.

Having been where I am for 11 years, we have never been asked to do a trend analysis. It seems an unusual request to me.

Just my $0.02.
 
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B

basselope

#12
How ya' doin' DietCokeofEvil?

Depending on your cal cycle, you may be asking the impossible.

To accumulate data for 1000 gages for say, 4-5 years and possibly up to 10 is a huge consumption of man hours.
Your point on man hours is well taken - that was the whole reason for asking our provider if they could give us the raw data. It would take us an inordinate amount of time to enter all of that gauge history manually. The data is already there; calibration history is in their database and contained in each report we receive. Of course, that doesn't mean it would be a simple task for the calibration lab to dump the data out to another format. Unfortunately the lab said "No" before we even got to whether or not it could be done.

Also, I don't think an outside source that is not familiar with how you use your gages can offer a trend analysis. They don't know how often you use your gages, or any other factors that could affect them: storage, training of the people using the gages etc. They can tell you what THEY see in the gage over the last 10 calibrations, but I feel it would be meaningless without context.
That's one reason we would like to do this in-house.

Having been where I am for 11 years, we have never been asked to do a trend analysis. It seems an unusual request to me.
Agreed... unfortunately it is a requirement in order to do business with a new European customer. No explanation, no consideration of ROI, no logic... just a mandate to do it. I won't go into detail - let's just say that it is out of my hands. I have the responsibility without the authority.:nopity:
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#13
Do they mandate it for all equipment, or only for the equipment used for their product? This could potentially be a big difference. There are many software packages out there that can be used for both tracking calibrations and doing statistical analyses such as stability, bias, linearity, and R&R studies. If you don't have to do it for all 1000 gages, it may make sense to (unfortunately) manually type in the information and let the software do the work.

Also, are the PDF files you have scanned images or do they actually have searchable text? If it's not just an image, you can copy and paste from the electronic file instead of retyping the data.
 
B

basselope

#14
Do they mandate it for all equipment, or only for the equipment used for their product?
Everything we own, whether it's used on their product or not. (still burns my butt that we're caving in on that one!):mad:
Their requirements are much more intrusive than just this issue, but I'll leave that for another soapbox.

If it's not just an image, you can copy and paste from the electronic file instead of retyping the data.
Yea, I tried that. It's actually faster just to split-screen the two programs and re-type the data rather than copy&paste.

I appreciate the feedback... you never know, someone might hit on something I hadn't thought of.:)

Thanks again!
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#15
Do you have anyone on light duty right now that needs to sit at a desk for a while? If not, it sounds like you need to hire a co-op student with some basic computer and typing skills...
 
B

basselope

#16
Do you have anyone on light duty right now that needs to sit at a desk for a while?
No sitting, no butts... Upper Mgt. confiscated them all. :D

Actually, I think the information all of you have provided has helped convince the lab owner that he's safe as long as we keep the the certified and raw data separate. He's looking into what formats he can easily provide.

Looks like the Cove has come through again! :applause:
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#18
No sitting, no butts... Upper Mgt. confiscated them all. :D
:lmao:

I'm sorry to hear that management confiscated your butt.
It goes back to the days of Taylor and Scientific Management. They found they can save a significant amount of time during the kicking and the chewing if all the butts were together!:tg:

Back to the ranch...

This is a good question, and I can see things both ways.

A metrology lab is in the business of selling numbers; that is their product. Hence, the value of uncertainty analysis in improving the value of the numbers. I can see their reticence in not wanting to give the Excel data.

However, I agree with Jeff. In the end, you need to keep the customer happy. If the metrology lab submits the official documentation, and then submits a disc with some spreadsheets on it, is there any real harm? You simply sign a letter stating the agreement and move on.

The customer is paying for the numbers. They can paper the wall with it, if they want.:)
 
#19
Just for my bit. When I ran a cal lab, we only kept the previous result in electronic format, the rest was hard copy, going back 10 years. For us to provide the information would have been a major task.
Paul
 
G

gfreely

#20
Wow! As I read through the thread, you guys were headed right down my train of thought!

a) I didn't see any reason (procedurally) that they couldn't provide the data in addition to an un-alterable certificate...

b) When I was a lab manager, we would jump through our butts to get the customer anything they needed (as long as it was legal, of course)...this field is WAY too competitive nowadays to dictate to the customer what terms they must live by...

c) perhaps their reluctance was based on unfamiliarity with the function of their system? If they are using automated cal SW or recording it electronically into SW, perhaps the only way they know to generate the report is defaulted to pdf?

1) Have you tried opening the pdf in Word? (basically UN pdf'ing it)

Looks like a lot of folks are all on the same page with regards to this issue. Glad to see that!
 
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