No Nonconformances issued from audit activity

S

selena15

#1
Hi Cove
i have a confusion
" i found out an audit report without any Non conformance. Just some observations which is included, indeed, some NCs. when i asked about the NC and why i wasn't highlighted to the auditees. I receive the answer that as well as this is the first time this area was audited and there is no procedure written, the Auditor prefered to not give them a Non conformance and told me that in the next audit, he will verify the observation and in case of it wasn't fixed; he will issue a Non confomance.
Is it allowed to proceed like this. i know that when you don't have a procedure or any evidence to audit against it; we should audit the process.
if this is the first audit in one area; is it okay to take it like this :confused:
thank you in advance
:thanx:
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: no NCs issued from audit activity

Just another example of ineffective internal audits. Likely, due to people being thrown in the internal audit process without being competent for performing the tasks at hand.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: no NCs issued from audit activity

Hello Selena, I have some questions.

Was this an internal audit?

If there is no procedure for the process, is a procedure required by the standard?

Which standard are you auditing against?

Were the observations written against element(s) of the standard? If so, which ones(s)?

What were the write-ups for?
 
S

selena15

#4
Hi ladies and gentlemen
sorry for the late

Jennifer; it was an internal audit. these area was audited against the standard ISO 9001, good practice of the organization and the procedures relating to this process. The procedures required by this standard is documented but our issue remain the huge resistance when we deployed the procedure.
This is the reason that some people present when they get this kind of behave as described in this thread. When i asked the auditor why there is no NC presented as this to the auditees; he explained to me that they prefer sometimes to take it easy and prefer to let something in order to win the important thing, mean the deployment of procedure first and they think that they won't get nothing if they make it tough since the first step. The method worth what it's worth :frust:

The elements of the standard concerned is in the chapter 7.2, mainly the 7.2.1 & 7.2.3 and many points relating to how the presentation of the goods to the customer and marketing.
I hope that it is more clear

I want to highlight one point, i wanted to know if there is any reason which can justify to not show the NCs to the auditee ? :confused:
 
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A

Al Hector

#5
Hi Selena,

For me is not logical. Why do they do internal audit?
If they find nonconformities or observations (opportunities for improvement- or whatever you call them in your internal audit procedure) the auditee is the first to be informed because “The management responsible for the area being audited shall ensure that any necessary corrections and corrective actions are taken without undue delay to eliminate detected nonconformities and their causes.”

I think that your auditors must be retrained.


Off Topic I also have XY chromosomes inside:)

Alin
 
S

selena15

#6
Hi Al
The procedure of audit is correct; and they informed the auditee durant the closing meeting about the NC detected, not as NC; but as observation which should be improved :notme:

I'm Agree that some retrainning is requested
 
S

Sandra Gauvin

#7
I would agree with Alin....a nonconformance or observation should be viewed as an opportunity to improve and not as being too tough. By taking the 'easy' approach, the importance of the audit findings may appear diluted....it's always better to find a nonconformance internally than have an external auditor find it.

Sandra
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#8
I hope I have understood everything correctly.:)

You have procedures in place that upper management has approved. An internal auditor found objective evidence that the procedures are not being followed. Instead of documenting and issuing the non-conformance, they... simply don't. The reason is due to "pressure" and such.

1. The internal auditor should always call it like they see it. If there is an NC, it should be issued and acted upon. There will always be interpretations and such in auditing, but if the evidence is there, it should be responded to.

2. If the procedure is bad, rewrite it. If it is not necessary, remove it. But if management agrees it needs to be in place, then they should be notified when the organization is not following it.

If this NC is soft-peddled, so will the next one, and so on. I believe Internal Auditing can be one of the strongest components of any quality management system, if it is correctly embraced and utilized by management.:)
 

Antonio Vieira

Involved - Posts
Trusted Information Resource
#9
Now in fact we have some new procedures in registration audits.
In the first audit (1st visit), which mainly documental auditing, the auditor will not write any nonconformance. He will only write the situation founded without the word nonconformance.
In the 2nd visit (normally 2 weeks after the first visit), it’s a normal audit.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#10
I agree with Brad. :agree1:

Here was a very telling point:
The procedures required by this standard is documented but our issue remain the huge resistance when we deployed the procedure.
You later suggested the auditors need to be retrained. I would like to caution you against a hasty move toward correcting auditors' behavior. Instead, it seems there is a cultural force that they hesitate to press against. A retraining could do more damage than good, if they feel they are being somehow punished for something not in their control. :whip:

It's time to back up and revisit the procedure. If it is not correct for the overall needs, change it. If it is correct but receives no departmental support, I suggest the auditors may not be the people who need "retraining."
:2cents:
 
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