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Non Conformance During ISO 9001 Audit - Not All Internal Audits Completed

GunLake

Involved In Discussions
#1
So I just had my first Audit, I've only worked here for a short time and the last Internal Audit was completed by the previous Quality Manager. So we got 1 NC during our ISO Audit and it was for the Internal Audit not Auditing all processes that were listed on the Audit Plan or at least not having any proof that the processes were auditted. How would i go about a CAR with this? Not exactly sure how to word it, especially root cause, It was the previous Quality Manager and he no longer works here. During his audit he was already on his way out so i don't think he cared much at that point. I am fairly happy with how the Audit went, I was worried being new to ISO and all.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#2
Very simple, determine and document cause, do some kind of initial fix and add long term correction....Do a corrective action!

Do an audit according to whatever your audit procedures say, as long as your procedures match up with the audit requirements of whatever standard is involved, document it and move on.

It's not really complicated.
 
#4
So this is an instance where the people where actually the problem. The old guy didn't do his job, nor did he care to do his job, and thus is no longer there. I'm not sure there is a real root cause - corrective action analysis here. More of a lesson learned -- make sure to do the job. You'll need to figure out some "tap dance" around it. Maybe something like "inadequate qualifications of the old guy" corrected by the higher qualifications of yourself, maybe coupled with some internal audit training. Good luck.
 

GunLake

Involved In Discussions
#5
Very simple, determine and document cause, do some kind of initial fix and add long term correction....Do a corrective action!

Do an audit according to whatever your audit procedures say, as long as your procedures match up with the audit requirements of whatever standard is involved, document it and move on.

It's not really complicated.
I understand that. But the fact it is a people issue and not really a system issue, I'm not really entirely sure how to word the root cause around that. This will be my first CAR.

Which ISO standard? ISO 9001?
Yes.
So this is an instance where the people where actually the problem. The old guy didn't do his job, nor did he care to do his job, and thus is no longer there. I'm not sure there is a real root cause - corrective action analysis here. More of a lesson learned -- make sure to do the job. You'll need to figure out some "tap dance" around it. Maybe something like "inadequate qualifications of the old guy" corrected by the higher qualifications of yourself, maybe coupled with some internal audit training. Good luck.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't think of that, Being a people issue and not a system issue, I was overthinking it. But turning it around to lack of qualification makes it more of a system issue. I think i can spin that one.
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Note the power of the “nature” part of the nonconformity statement.

It also helps the auditor to select the best clause for effective corrective action.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#8
While I understand the desire to chalk this up to a people problem, to me it shows failure points with several processes. In other words, while the effect was the lack of audits, saying it's was because the previous guy didn't do the job properly is a superficial explanation when it's really because of several causes:

1. Senior management awareness - Why did they not know about the lack of audits or the status of the audit program?
2. Management review - See #1. And if Management Review is currently showing as an annual or twice-a-year event, I beg to differ. Management review happens at several levels, cascading up to the larger event that most quality folks and organizations are familiar with in the ISO 9001 world. At some point, even outside of the larger review, why wasn't this flagged? Where was the oversight?
3. Resources - Why did only 1 person known about the status of the audit program (i.e., was there a designate)?

So now, what will be done to address the above causes to ensure you won't be used as the scapegoat should the entire situation repeat itself?
 
#9
What
John Broomfield
and
RoxaneB

said ... ask the boss why. The previous guy may never have had the time to do all of them. The audit program may be weak.

Personally, I allow six months to blame EVERYTHING on anybody who leaves the organization, but that is the statute of limitations.

Unless of course it is top management, then there is no limitation. :LOL:
 
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