Non-ISO9001:2000 'related' procedures - A separate NC system for Customer Service

I

Ingeniero1

I am not sure that I can clearly explain what I want to say; let me try it.

"Just as our financial department is not audited", our Customer Service Engineer wants/would like to treat/handle customer complaints that are non-product-related in any way as separate and outside of the Quality Managenemt System. Specific order delays, wrong counts, and of course non-conformances are considered product related.

Examples of the non-product-related issues that he wants to treat separately would include: when someone is not polite during a telephone conversation, or if we habitually do something that the customer doesn't like, or if the customer thinks that we charge too much for shipping, etc.

So he has duplicated our Corrective and Preventive Action Requests forms, has given them a slightly different title, and uses them to resolve the issues. BUT he doesn't want to have to report, track, or be audited in this area.

Is he being reasonable? Of course, if we don't bring it up, the auditor will not even know that this practice exists, but I am concerned about any implications.

Thanks -

Alex
 
C

cncmarine

I tell him no.
We are all part of the same process and company. So why would he want to have two systems.
In my system all customer complaints go through one system.
 
C

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Leader
Super Moderator
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. We have "disciplinary" actions written up on a form that is not controlled or audited. This form is used for writing up employees that are chronically late, etc. No one can look at them except the employee and his chain of command - they are kept in the employees HR file.

IMO - Just because he liked and used the outline/format of your existing problem solving form doesn't mean it needs to be controlled in the same manner - it's being used for two entirely different purposes.
 
RoxaneB

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
Ingeniero1 said:
Examples of the non-product-related issues that he wants to treat separately would include: when someone is not polite during a telephone conversation, or if we habitually do something that the customer doesn't like, or if the customer thinks that we charge too much for shipping, etc.
Click to expand...

Alex, when a member of your Customer Service department is not polite on the phone, that's the kind of thing that should go onto their performance apprasial and/or the kind of skill that should be assessed to determine the individual's competency. The latter, as you can, fits nicely in with ISO 9001:2000.

As for the situations where you "habitually do something the customer doesn't like" or "the customer thinks that we charge too much"...how do you know this?

How do you know if the Customer does not like something or if the Customer thinks you charge too much? Most likely because the Customer has actually complained and this should be entered into the official Customer Complaint system.

Like Cari, we have tools in place for disciplinary issues. These records, while not deemed Quality Records, are maintained in an individual's file and are used to assess competency.
 
Sidney Vianna

Sidney Vianna

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Ingeniero1 said:
I am not sure that I can clearly explain what I want to say; let me try it.

Examples of the non-product-related issues that he wants to treat separately would include: when someone is not polite during a telephone conversation, or if we habitually do something that the customer doesn't like, or if the customer thinks that we charge too much for shipping, etc.
Alex
Click to expand...
In my opinion, this would clearly fall under

7.2.3 Customer communication
The organization shall determine and implement effective arrangements for communicating with customers in relation to:
c) customer feedback, including customer complaints.


Remember, one of the principles behind ISO 9001 is CUSTOMER FOCUS. I can not see any reason why you would not want to have a SYSTEMATIC process to know "...if we habitually do something that the customer doesn't like . . " . There is MUCH more to customer satisfaction than product performance. That is why the definition of quality in ISO 9000 is so broad.


 
Last edited:
Al Rosen

Al Rosen

Leader
Super Moderator
Ingeniero1 said:
I am not sure that I can clearly explain what I want to say; let me try it.

"Just as our financial department is not audited", our Customer Service Engineer wants/would like to treat/handle customer complaints that are non-product-related in any way as separate and outside of the Quality Managenemt System. Specific order delays, wrong counts, and of course non-conformances are considered product related.

Examples of the non-product-related issues that he wants to treat separately would include: when someone is not polite during a telephone conversation, or if we habitually do something that the customer doesn't like, or if the customer thinks that we charge too much for shipping, etc.

So he has duplicated our Corrective and Preventive Action Requests forms, has given them a slightly different title, and uses them to resolve the issues. BUT he doesn't want to have to report, track, or be audited in this area.

Is he being reasonable? Of course, if we don't bring it up, the auditor will not even know that this practice exists, but I am concerned about any implications.

Thanks -

Alex
Click to expand...
2cents.gif Of course, he doesn't want the issues that reflect on him to be included. Include everything and segregate. Don't leave it up to the person taking the call to determine which bucket the complaint belongs in.
 
RoxaneB

RoxaneB

Change Agent and Data Storyteller
Super Moderator
Sidney Vianna said:
In my opinion, this would clearly fall under

7.2.3 Customer communication
The organization shall determine and implement effective arrangements for communicating with customers in relation to:
c) customer feedback, including customer complaints.


Remember, one of the principles behind ISO 9001 is CUSTOMER FOCUS. I can not see any reason why you would not want to have a SYSTEMATIC process to know "...if we habitually do something that the customer doesn't like . . " . There is MUCH more to customer satisfaction than product performance. That is why the definition of quality in ISO 9000 is so broad.
Click to expand...

Great explanation!!! :applause:
 
C

Carl Keller

I have no problem running a seperate system outside the QMS,

HOWEVER

The ISO coordinator or responsible party should decide the criteria to measure what is, and is not a "Customer complaint".

Anything they feel falls under the umbrella of the standard should be included. While the rest could probably be used for "improvement" I would leave that up to someone else.

Considering the amount of "interpretation" done by the ISO auditors, I would not mention the other system at all.

Following with RC Beyette's thoughts, our company has an attendance policy and if employees do not show up for work regularly, it could conceivably affect the quality of our goods or services, but we do not track employee attendance as one of our metrics, nor do we "communicate" attendance to our customers or the auditor.

I think you just need to be realistic. After all, most Quality Systems are just a means to compensate for a lack of common sense.

Carl-
 
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