Nonconformance Found Outside the Audit Scope - Supplier Audit

Sidney Vianna

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#11
Re: Nonconformance Found Outside the Audit Scope

There is no reason for a 2nd party audit (supplier audit) to be treated differently.
There are many reasons for a differentiated treatment. The audit objectives are totally different; the audit clients are different; chances are, the audit criteria is different, the audit scope would very likely be different; auditor competence requirements are different, audit reporting requirements are different. The whole approach to a 2[sup]nd[/sup] party audit is different from one conducted for 3[sup]rd[/sup] party certification purposes.
 
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TerryMcCann

#12
It depends on the mandate; the declared purpose of the audit and why the audit scope was limited to exclude the area where the NC was observed. I prefer to limit formal NC's to the audit scope unless the declared purpose implicitly extends the mandate. I would certainly not ignore it but point it out under observations. The client will decide what to do with the information anyway.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#13
Re: Nonconformance Found Outside the Audit Scope

+1

In my opinion.

Generally, if you find a nonconformance during the course of an audit that pertains to the standard you are auditing to, it should be treated as a nonconformance.

Writing an observation or an opportunity for improvement would be considered a soft nonconformance and that is frowned on.

It is not unusual to stumble onto a nonconformance that is outside of the scope of the audit. They don't get a pass because it wasn't the main focus of the audit.

There is no reason for a 2nd party audit (supplier audit) to be treated differently. Doing so weakens the entire ISO scheme.
Please note that I started off with "in my opinion".

You are all welcome to your own opinions, but anything other than a robust audit flies in the face of "outcomes matter". It weakens the entire ISO 9001 based scheme.

I'm amazed that such stalwarts as the group of you are that you would not want to keep from diluting the program.

Again, this is my opinion, and you are welcome to yours.
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#14
Re: Nonconformance Found Outside the Audit Scope

<snip>You are all welcome to your own opinions, but anything other than a robust audit flies in the face of "outcomes matter". It weakens the entire ISO 9001 based scheme.

I'm amazed that such stalwarts as the group of you are that you would not want to keep from diluting the program. </snip>
What is this 'program' of which you speak? :confused:
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#15
Re: Nonconformance Found Outside the Audit Scope

What is this 'program' of which you speak? :confused:
http://www.iaf.nu/articles/FAQ/288

"Q - What are the expected outcomes for accredited certification to ISO 9001 and ISO 14001?

A - ISO 9001 and ISO 14001 certification are frequently used in both private and public sectors to
increase confidence in the products and services provided by organizations, between partners in business-to-business relations, in the selection of suppliers in supply chains and in the right to tender for procurement contracts.

IAF and the International Organization for Standardization (ISO) have jointly produced a concise statement of outcomes that are to be expected as a result of accredited certification to ISO 9001. The intent is to promote a common focus throughout the entire conformity assessment chain in order to achieve these expected outcomes and thereby enhance the value and relevance of accredited certification.

The following documents can be downloaded from Documents for General Information:

Expected Outcomes for Accredited Certification to ISO 9001

Expected Outcomes for Accredited Certification to ISO 14001"
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#16
Thanks for the info / link, Jim. I'm all for the outcome of 3rd party assessment and certification being more relevant to customers of certified bodies.

I don't stretch that support to 2nd party audits that can have a very different remit and nor would I recommend other areas are brought into 3rd party audits (although for 2nd party you can do what you want, it's the organisation's own programme, after all.
 

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#17
Thanks for the info / link, Jim. I'm all for the outcome of 3rd party assessment and certification being more relevant to customers of certified bodies.

I don't stretch that support to 2nd party audits that can have a very different remit and nor would I recommend other areas are brought into 3rd party audits (although for 2nd party you can do what you want, it's the organisation's own programme, after all.
Your welcome to your opinion. As I stated at the start of my post I presented my opinion.

My position is that when you less than a robust audit, including 1st party and 2nd party, you weaken the entire ISO 9001 (including its derivatives) scheme, and that saddens me.
 
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