Definition Nonconformance - How is this Top Management Definition of Nonconformances?

Is this top management definition of nonconformance ...

  • Pure genius, why didn't I think of that

    Votes: 1 7.1%
  • Seems fine to me

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sketchy, but OK if the auditor has agreed

    Votes: 2 14.3%
  • Not really right, even if the auditor lets it slide

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Laughable, misses the fundamental point

    Votes: 11 78.6%

  • Total voters
    14
M

Madfox

#41
“Oh boy, is this great?”

To quote Dorfman in "Animal House."

Unfortunately it seems the original posters company's main mission is to put lipstick on the pig a week or two prior to the 3rd party audit. IMNSHO, the discussion here regarding N/C product misses the "big pic."

I view a "N/C" as a failure to meet customer, again, customer requirements. I truly don't go to many places making bad stuff, the market place has put them out of business, or China has been able to meet/exceed the previous quality levels. I do go to a lot of places were on-time delivery is below 90%! ("Hey, you know how it is, we ship a gizillion pieces a day, you can't be perfect.")

As an auditor I'm asking for an orientation regarding the organization's "complaint system." What constitutes a "complaint" here. Not all complaints have to generate CA's, and not all CA's have to be acted upon. In my subconscious I'm thinking, "is management really hearing about issues the customers are bringing up." N/C should be something sales is involved in, or be aware of.
 
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G

Greg B

#42
Re: “Oh boy, is this great?”

To quote Dorfman in "Animal House."
IMNSHO, the discussion here regarding N/C product misses the "big pic."
We are not talking about the "big picture" we are talking about the OPs 'definition' of a Non-Conformance.

I view a "N/C" as a failure to meet customer, again, customer requirements. I truly don't go to many places making bad stuff, the market place has put them out of business, or China has been able to meet/exceed the previous quality levels. I do go to a lot of places were on-time delivery is below 90%! ("Hey, you know how it is, we ship a gizillion pieces a day, you can't be perfect.")
We are talking about the OPs requirement for a definition of an NC and IMO this is NOt soley based on customer 'opinions' unless the customer also includes up and downstream process owners (internal customers)

As an auditor I'm asking for an orientation regarding the organization's "complaint system." What constitutes a "complaint" here. Not all complaints have to generate CA's, and not all CA's have to be acted upon. In my subconscious I'm thinking, "is management really hearing about issues the customers are bringing up." N/C should be something sales is involved in, or be aware of.
This is just off the mark totally. Management aren't hearing ANYTHING let alone their customers. Did you read what they wanted in the OPs post? Once again my reply was glossed over. Maybe I should only post in the daylight hours of the USA rather than midnight your time!:mad:
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#43
I would like to thank everyone involved. I learn so much reading the posts.

As far as the OP, my advice to him/her would be to not give the nonconformance statement another thought. If this came from top management, I am not going to ride in as the new guy and start telling them they are doing things wrong. Increased responsibility should come increased authority. If the OP is responsible for the success of the audit, then he/she should have the authority to change that definition themselves. Otherwise, I would ignore it.

Would your/ my top management change policy overnight, and based on what? If that nonconformity approach has already survived some time, audits, customers, etc., then there are probably other quality issues that the new person can tackle and win easier than changing top managements minds.

What is nonconformity to me? Here is my list, in order of priority:

1. What my customer defines as nonconformity
2. What my regulatory agency/ auditor defines as nonconformity
3. What top management defines as nonconformity
4. What I define as nonconformity

Hopefully, these four can get aligned fairly quickly, with the customer leading this activity. It may not be a direct lead, but as a by-product of say, end item rejection and potential loss of contract.

I don't know; maybe the above list reads like a cop-out. But just as I have to live/ work in a world with imperfections that I cannot fix, I offer up little things I can change, and try to work within the rest. I do passionately care, but I know my place.

:topic:
Something to consider: Given the excitement and effort expended in this thread, what would everyone thing of a poll on the interpretation of nonconformance? Maybe in our own little Cove World, we can learn from each other the different interpretations of that word, and the different ways it is used. Just a thought.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#44
:topic:
Something to consider: Given the excitement and effort expended in this thread, what would everyone thing of a poll on the interpretation of nonconformance? Maybe in our own little Cove World, we can learn from each other the different interpretations of that word, and the different ways it is used. Just a thought.
Brad, you are able to create a poll with a new thread. If you need some help let any of the moderators know. We are here to help.

This type of poll would be beneficial for the readers.
 

RoxaneB

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#45
rdd007 said:
I'm in a new job, and the ISO audit is coming up next month. I've got to get your input on this item, because it's very important to us ...
Why is it important to your organization?

rdd007 said:
Top management has told me that "in our quality system we have defined nonconformances as nonconforming parts found at final inspection or the customer, that way we only have to track and provide corrective actions on nonconformances that are discovered at final inspection, not at the work station." There are a few boxes or racks of parts that are scrap or rework at the workstations, and those are just thrown out or reworked when the operator or supervisor gets to it. They aren't tagged, except when an auditor is around ...
Out of curiousity, why is this their definition? We've seen Covers talking about weasel-like antics, but perhaps, rdd007, you could help us by explaining how this defintion came to be the accepted one within your organization?

I have a strange feeling that the organization knows that nonconforming means the nonfulfillment of a requirement (i.e. bad product). But what are the requirements? Are we talking just physical nonconformities here? What about late deliveries? Customer complaints? How are concessions dealt with?
 
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