Not following the Procedures is a Nonconformance? Sales department

eternal_atlas

Quite Involved in Discussions
#1
Internal Audit Finding in a sales department:

Following discrepancies were identified with the procedural requirments;
  • 1. Quotations sent to the client without the approval of authorised person
    1. 2. Quotations sent to the client donot carry the terms and conditions of sale as per procedure
      1. 3.Orders placed to the supplier without top management approval.

If it is an NCR? then let me know the ISO 9001 clause related to this non conformity.

Suresh
 

Stijloor

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Not following the procedures is an NCR?

Internal Audit Finding in a sales department:

Following discrepancies were identified with the procedural requirements;
  • 1. Quotations sent to the client without the approval of authorised person
    1. 2. Quotations sent to the client donot carry the terms and conditions of sale as per procedure
      1. 3.Orders placed to the supplier without top management approval.

If it is an NCR? then let me know the ISO 9001 clause related to this non conformity.

Suresh
If the audit evidence provided is a violation of an organizational procedure, then it is a nonconformity.
Remember nonconformity is defined as: "non-fulfilment of a requirement."

Examples of requirements:
I
  • ISO 9001:2008
  • Company quality management system documentation (i.e.: Quality manual, procedures, work-instructions, control plans, etc.)
  • Customer requirements
  • Statutory requirements
  • Regulatory requirements
  • Other

Stijloor.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Administrator
#3
Re: Not following the procedures is an NCR?

Good day,

7.5.1 says "The organization shall plan and carry out production and service provision under controlled conditions." In plain terms, make a plan and do what has been planned.
 

eternal_atlas

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: Not following the procedures is an NCR?

Thanks.

But, can i relate this specific violation to 7.2.2 i.e. review of the requirements related to the product?

Need reply please..
 

db

Inactive Registered Visitor
#6
Re: Not following the procedures is an NCR?

No, you refer to the company requirement that's been violated. There is no need to refer to an ISO 9001:2008 requirement.
:agree:

A nonconformity exists when the audit evidence does not match the audit criteria. When teaching internal auditing, I often say that you need to write nonconfomities to the lowest possible documentation level. A nonconformity will be much easier to understand and take action if it is written that way. In this case, it seems the criteria was your procedure. So, the nonconformity should be written against the procedure. Just leave the standard out of it.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Administrator
#7
Re: Not following the procedures is an NCR?

Thanks.

But, can i relate this specific violation to 7.2.2 i.e. review of the requirements related to the product?

Need reply please..
I do agree with my fellow Covers that it is best to refer to the local requirements.

But to specifically respond to the above question, 7.2.2 is a planning element and not an execution element. That is, the customer's requirements will be reviewed in order to make sure the products/services you provide meet the customer requirements. In very plain terms, that means no guessing what the customer wants.

But I presume you have already done that, since you have listed internal requirements for management reviewing quotations and orders before their submission. I am thinking by this point management knows what the customer wants.
 

AndyN

A problem shared...
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Internal Audit Finding in a sales department:

Following discrepancies were identified with the procedural requirments;
  • 1. Quotations sent to the client without the approval of authorised person
    1. 2. Quotations sent to the client donot carry the terms and conditions of sale as per procedure
      1. 3.Orders placed to the supplier without top management approval.

If it is an NCR? then let me know the ISO 9001 clause related to this non conformity.

Suresh
Are these requirement of your own process/procedures? If so, an internal auditor should report the situation against those references - it's no sufficient to say 'per procedures'. Also, we don't see any evidence of the effect of this or any quantitative details. If I were a manager I'd be asking 'so what'...?
 
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