Not following the Procedures is a Nonconformance? Sales department

eternal_atlas

Involved In Discussions
#21
Are management encouraging them to do so?
Nope.. management is unaware of these discrepancies
Are management letting people get away with it?
No
Are all the details of the written procedure necessary?
Yes. as it is approved by the process owner and the management
Are the current procedures practical?
Yes. as per the management
Is there a better way of doing things?
Yes. the process owner has to find out

also all these happened due the matter of negligence and procedures were overlooked by the sales team
 
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C

ChrissieO

#22
Are management encouraging them to do so?
Nope.. management is unaware of these discrepancies
Are management letting people get away with it?
No
Are all the details of the written procedure necessary?
Yes. as it is approved by the process owner and the management
Are the current procedures practical?
Yes. as per the management
Is there a better way of doing things?
Yes. the process owner has to find out

also all these happened due the matter of negligence and procedures were overlooked by the sales team
If this was picked up in internal audits, have you stepped up your auditing activities in these areas. If there is a problem in an area then that is where you should be concentrating your audit resource.

You may also need to look at your training processes to establish why the sales team were not aware of the importance of these procedures.

I worked as a sales manager and trainer for over 10 years and have recently been involved in bringing one of our sales based businesses into the 9001 fold and I will state from experience that the average sales person is not interested in procedures and paperwork, their key driver is the commission cheque.

Maybe some invetigation as to COPQ needs to be done and put across to the sales team as to why quality of service is important to their monthly cheque. It is no good just telling them they need to follow a procedure they need to know why and how that relates and benefits themselves and the company.

In response to your original question "which clause" if you are sure it is because the sales team "overlooked" the procedure then I would direct it toward training and awareness.

Out of interest, what is your proposed CA.

Chrissie
 
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Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#23
In my experience, the written procedre is not always the right or most practical way to do things. Maybe they need to look at the actual procedure an see why people are cutting corners.
Yes, that is why I said in one of my previous posts on this thread
Unless it is one of those instances where the documented procedure has not been revised to catch up with the intended process.
But, remember, ISO 9001 requires procedures to be revised, as necessary, so they support (and describe) the intended process. If there is a significant mismatch between the process supporting command media (e.g. a procedure) and the actual process, we also have a problem.
 
C

ChrissieO

#24
Yes, that is why I said in one of my previous posts on this thread But, remember, ISO 9001 requires procedures to be revised, as necessary, so they support (and describe) the intended process. If there is a significant mismatch between the process supporting command media (e.g. a procedure) and the actual process, we also have a problem.
Agree with you there also. So if the written procedure is correct but in real life it is not happening it is a training issue and if the written procedure i incorrect then it is a document control issue.

C
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#26
Please don't refer to them as 'violations'. Auditor are not cops and they don't write tickets....;)
Auditors are authorities who, when necessary, write nonconformance reports. "When necessary" means that a requirement has been violated, and how one refers to the violation transgression offense nonconformity has no bearing on its content or purpose.
 
#27
Auditors are authorities who, when necessary, write nonconformance reports. "When necessary" means that a requirement has been violated, and how one refers to the violation transgression offense nonconformity has no bearing on its content or purpose.
Maybe not for your situation, Jim. However, as a representative from another country (UK), I can tell you with some authority that the word 'violation' has a different 'feel' to it in my country/language and it wouldn't be appropriate to use that term, if we are discussing improvements to a management system. Maybe in Wisconsin, it has other meanings...
 
J

John Martinez

#28
To be fair, there could be difficulty in straight-across translating terms like nonconformance in various languages and dialects. Cultural influences could also impact selection of terms, as well as the system's maturity. I have noticed frequent examples of cross-culture discomfort as expressions are received from afar with locally developed impressions.
ISO 9000:2005 defines nonconformance. It is available in several languages. "nonfulfillment of a requirement". ISO 9000"2005 is available in several languages.
 
J

John Martinez

#29
Auditors are authorities who, when necessary, write nonconformance reports. "When necessary" means that a requirement has been violated, and how one refers to the violation transgression offense nonconformity has no bearing on its content or purpose.
Run a red light, and I DO NOT think the police officer will write you a nonconformity.
 
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