Not having an internal audit during the year

#1
:confused:Hello : I about to have my last re certification audit under ISO 9001:2008 and I didn't have an internal audit due to lack of resources , how can this affect my results ?
Thanks in advance .
:truce::truce:
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#2
What does your internal audit program say is "periodic"? Odds are you're going to be in conflict with your audit program requirements, possibly the failed in your contract obligations with CB, and you've opened yourself up to possibly 1 if not 2 or more serious findings of nonconformity using language similar to this below.

1 - No internal audit

2 - Lack of adequate resources to "maintain" the management system effectively

3 - Failure to effectively maintain the management system per policy commitment

Outcome? Lack of recommendation for continued certification

This subject brings into question the actual commitment of your senior management and would cause me as an auditor to take a harder look (if the audit continues) at other areas that could be effected by lip service fulfillment actions of a QMS.
 

locutus

Involved In Discussions
#3
What Randy said. You will be having a difficult certification audit if you can not provide evidence of doing at least some internal audits. Most expectations is this is done at least annually, but as Randy states, what does your procedure say - as you might be in nonconform with your own procedure.
 
#4
:confused:Hello : I about to have my last re certification audit under ISO 9001:2008 and I didn't have an internal audit due to lack of resources , how can this affect my results ?
Thanks in advance .
:truce::truce:
Experience shows you're going to get a minimum of 1 Major - for not implementing internal audits. Of course, this will likely to lead to others, for example Management Review (because one of the inputs was missing) and, no doubt because audits weren't done, there will be non-conformities with the various processes, because things have changed in a year.

I'd be interested to know why resources aren't being put behind your internal audits...
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#5
While I agree with the previous posters about what should happen, especially when the problem is assigned to lack of resources, anecdotal evidence from this very forum shows that some less than competent external auditors would give this a pass; especially the ones that work for unaccredited and pseudo-accredited CB's.

In depth assessment of the internal audit process effectiveness is something that many CB auditors fail to perform.

Sadly, the norm for most organizations that "comply" with ISO 9001 and other ISO 9001-based standards is to have an internal audit process that adds little business value, from the leadership's perspective. If the top management of an organization felt they derived business benefits from internal audits, they would ensure resources were provided and demand it's effective deployment. As it is, for most organizations, internal audits are a meaningless exercise.
 
Last edited:

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#6
While I agree with the previous posters about what should happen, especially when the problem is assigned to lack of resources, anecdotal evidence from this very forum shows that some less than competent external auditors would give this a pass; especially the ones that work for unaccredited and pseudo-accredited CB's.

In depth assessment of the internal audit process effectiveness is something that many CB auditors fail to perform.

Sadly, the norm for most organizations that "comply" with ISO 9001 and other ISO 9001-based standards is to have an internal audit process that adds little business value, from the leadership's perspective. If the top management of an organization felt they derived business benefits from internal audits, they would ensure resources were provided and demand it's effective deployment. As it is, for most organizations, internal audits are a meaningless exercise.
Those would be the same companies that treat their certification as a thorn in their side and intend to do as little as possible for everything concerning it. It is wise to distance yourself from them. You will sleep better at night and have lower blood pressure.
 
Q

QAMTY

#7
For sure you'll face problems,but ....Maybe you have sufficient to time to run an internal audit before the final audit take place.
 
#8
For sure you'll face problems,but ....Maybe you have sufficient to time to run an internal audit before the final audit take place.
It's not just about doing an audit. What about taking corrective actions, and conducting a management review. A review's not much use without internal audit results...
 
Q

QAMTY

#9
If planned properly, it may comply with everything, the question is, what is the timeframe to carry out all the tasks?
 

pkost

Trusted Information Resource
#10
You could also raise your own non conformance, investigate why it happened and then implement a corrective action plan

This could be used as a gesture that you're not completely blind to what has happened. Best do something about it now instead of sitting in your re-cert audit and saying to the auditor "yeah, we know thats a problem but we haven't done anything about it"
 
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