Notification to Customers regarding Major Audit Finding

  • Thread starter continuallearner319
  • Start date
C

continuallearner319

#1
Hi,
During recertificaiton auditor issued a major finding (first one ever)... Does the company need to notify all TS subscribing customers of this finding? :confused: I see that Chrysler has addressed this in CSR (lists a email address) but what about GM and FORD?
 
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Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Re: Notification to Customers regarding Major Finding

Hi,
During recertificaiton auditor issued a major finding (first one ever)... Does the company need to notify all TS subscribing customers of this finding? :confused: I see that Chrysler has addressed this in CSR (lists a email address) but what about GM and FORD?
I'm not aware of a requirement to report a finding unless it is not resolved within the time expected for resolution. However, if there is something which materially impacts one or more customers which was discovered as part of that finding, the responsibility would be to notify customer of the situation, ESPECIALLY what is underway to remedy the situation and the projected time table. Such "impact" might be a possibility of inferior material because of a lapse in maintaining control of the supply chain - an actual example which occurred with titanium tubing used in military helicopters about a decade ago.
 
R

Reg Morrison

#3
Re: Notification to Customers regarding Major Finding

You are not well versed on the specific requirements of the IATF concerning CB audit results and it's implications. A major NC during a TS 16949 audit is equivalent to the trigger of a decertification process, but the supplier still have a chance to address the NC and "save" the validity of the certificate. So, there are expectations about notifying automotive customers if and when you get a major NC.

Hopefully a TS qualified auditor can provide the latest requirement here.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Re: Notification to Customers regarding Major Finding

I guess I'm unclear about the Chrysler (Daimler?) interpretation of the term "Needs Improvement" in this clause:
4.1.8 Certification Body/Registrar Notification (ISO/TS 16949 cl. 4.1.1.2)



  • A supplier shall notify their certification body/registrar in writing within five (5) working days when a customer places the site in the "Needs Improvement" category.


I don't recall that wording in TS 16949. I do, however, NOW recall (after consulting old notes) that there was some discussion about a "Major" not being declared unless and until the client (object of the audit) had failed to provide a satisfactory solution to a non-conformance. Issues that were deemed "drastic" [my word - not TS 16949] would probably mean terminating the audit in midstream - no findings reported.

5.11 Nonconformity management
Change Summary
5.11.1
The CB shall require client response to nonconformities within 60 days,
including evidence of correction; root cause methodology, analysis and results;
systemic corrective action; and verification of effectiveness.
5.11.2
If a nonconformance is not closed in 90 days, the audit result is deemed
failed and the IATF database is updated. This means that new clients are not
certified (and existing clients have their certificate immediately withdrawn) and
shall start over with stage 1 & 2. In exceptional cases where implementation of
corrective actions cannot be completed within 90 days from the end of the
audit, the CB shall consider the nonconformity ?open but 100% resolved? if
the issue has been contained, an acceptable action plan with implementation
evidence has been submitted, an on-site follow-up visit prior to next audit has
been scheduled, and records for the justification of the situation are maintained
by the CB.
All nonconformances shall be reviewed at the subsequent visit. If not effectively
implemented, the CB shall issue a major nonconformance against the corrective
action process and reissue a major nonconformance against the repeat issue.



I guess some real world clarity is needed here. Do we have accurate data from OP? Where is the "Customer Representative" for each customer who is supposed to be the front man in communicating to and from the customer? Isn't it the Customer Representative's responsibility to know intimately what each customer under his purview requires in the way of notification and communication?
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Re: Notification to Customers regarding Major Finding

Hopefully a TS qualified auditor can provide the latest requirement here.
Thanks Morrison...

:modcop:

continuallearner319, Welcome to the COVE...
Please wait for info from sources suggested
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
Re: Notification to Customers regarding Major Finding

Bringing this up again here for the attention of any TS qualified auditors to respond .....
Thanks
 
#7
Re: Notification to Customers regarding Major Finding

I guess I'm unclear about the Chrysler (Daimler?) interpretation of the term "Needs Improvement" in this clause:
4.1.8 Certification Body/Registrar Notification (ISO/TS 16949 cl. 4.1.1.2)



  • A supplier shall notify their certification body/registrar in writing within five (5) working days when a customer places the site in the "Needs Improvement" category.


I don't recall that wording in TS 16949. I do, however, NOW recall (after consulting old notes) that there was some discussion about a "Major" not being declared unless and until the client (object of the audit) had failed to provide a satisfactory solution to a non-conformance. Issues that were deemed "drastic" [my word - not TS 16949] would probably mean terminating the audit in midstream - no findings reported.

5.11 Nonconformity management
Change Summary
5.11.1
The CB shall require client response to nonconformities within 60 days,
including evidence of correction; root cause methodology, analysis and results;
systemic corrective action; and verification of effectiveness.
5.11.2
If a nonconformance is not closed in 90 days, the audit result is deemed
failed and the IATF database is updated. This means that new clients are not
certified (and existing clients have their certificate immediately withdrawn) and
shall start over with stage 1 & 2. In exceptional cases where implementation of
corrective actions cannot be completed within 90 days from the end of the
audit, the CB shall consider the nonconformity ?open but 100% resolved? if
the issue has been contained, an acceptable action plan with implementation
evidence has been submitted, an on-site follow-up visit prior to next audit has
been scheduled, and records for the justification of the situation are maintained
by the CB.
All nonconformances shall be reviewed at the subsequent visit. If not effectively
implemented, the CB shall issue a major nonconformance against the corrective
action process and reissue a major nonconformance against the repeat issue.



I guess some real world clarity is needed here. Do we have accurate data from OP? Where is the "Customer Representative" for each customer who is supposed to be the front man in communicating to and from the customer? Isn't it the Customer Representative's responsibility to know intimately what each customer under his purview requires in the way of notification and communication?
The IATF Rules have changed wording some, but the 4th Edition says this plus more. Might you know what recourse a company might have when possibly facing a failed special audit by the registrar? Your speedy feedback is greatly appreciated!!!!!

GretaAnn
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#8
Re: Notification to Customers regarding Major Finding

The IATF Rules have changed wording some, but the 4th Edition says this plus more. Might you know what recourse a company might have when possibly facing a failed special audit by the registrar? Your speedy feedback is greatly appreciated!!!!!

GretaAnn
What is a "special audit"? More details, please.
 
#9
IATF requires a re-audit to close major non-conformances. My registrar calls them 'special audits'. They are not the normal recertification or annual surveillance audits. They are 'special' :)
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#10
IATF requires a re-audit to close major non-conformances. My registrar calls them 'special audits'. They are not the normal recertification or annual surveillance audits. They are 'special' :)
That's what I thought. Has this audit already taken place? As you probably know, under the 4th edition rules any major nonconformity is the beginning of the decertification process. If the problem isn't cleared up at the time of the "special" audit, you will be decertified and will have to do a new certification audit at a later date. This sort of thing is pretty rare, and there has to be some kind of gross breakdown before it will happen.
 
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