Objecting to Registrar Audit Non-conformances

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#11
Re: objecting to non-conformances

All CBs should have an appeals system
According to ISO 19001
6.5
Practical help — Opening the meeting
In many instances, for example internal audits in a small organization, the opening meeting may simply consist of communicating that an audit is being conducted and explaining the nature of the audit.
For other audit situations, the meeting should be formal and records of the attendance should be kept. The meeting should be chaired by the audit team leader, and the following items should be considered, as appropriate:
........
n information about any appeal system on the conduct or conclusions of the audit.
......
Question from the side
How many auditors say this in their opening meetings
...

If you cannot agree then agree to leave it open and institute an appeal
 
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pkost

Trusted Information Resource
#12
Re: objecting to non-conformances

I have never been informed that we could appeal, I assumed it would be possible but I have been wary to use it because of the consequences, although as Sidney says, 17021 explicitly prohibits discriminatory actions against appellants and complainants.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#14
Re: objecting to non-conformances

I have never been informed that we could appeal, I assumed it would be possible but I have been wary to use it because of the consequences, although as Sidney says, 17021 explicitly prohibits discriminatory actions against appellants and complainants.
Your rights should be in your contract and or in the audit report that you receive.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#15
Re: objecting to non-conformances

That, in itself, goes against ISO 19011 guidance which stipulates one of the items to be covered in the opening meeting as
I've never had that covered in an opening meeting.

I wonder if I'm the exeption or the rule.
 

pkost

Trusted Information Resource
#16
Re: objecting to non-conformances

Your rights should be in your contract and or in the audit report that you receive.
As you were posting that I was considering the exact same thing, I have so far searched: website, contract, schedule to contract and visit report

I have been unsuccessful in finding any reference to appeals. Although not the end of the world as I now know you can complain, it does say something about the quality of the organisation!
 
#17
Re: objecting to non-conformances

I have never been informed that we could appeal, I assumed it would be possible but I have been wary to use it because of the consequences, although as Sidney says, 17021 explicitly prohibits discriminatory actions against appellants and complainants.
Wow - things have become that slack in the UK. Not in my day!

ISO/IEC 17021 is fine and dandy, but clients generally don't know its relevance to their situation and probably wouldn't purchase it (based on its title, even) and ISO 19011 is in much the same situation - I seem to be having parallel conversations in another thread! Some of this is a legacy of not reading the available guidance such as 19011 when implementing ISO 9001...:mg:

If only folks would think, "Oh, look there's another document referenced in this ISO 9001 note...I wonder what it says, let's get one shall we?"
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#19
Re: Objecting to Non-conformances

Not informing a client about the right to appeal? That's a crappy practice...

Here is an exact excerpt from one of our reports and it is contained in every report I have ever wriiten...Should you wish to file an appeal then this must be completed in writing and to the address below. The appeals process will be completed within 30 days of the date of this report.

Here is an item on the meeting checklist that I must follow and complete that becomes part of the audit record..." Explain Appeals process ".

I've been taught to let the client know up front about Appeals, NC's and eveything else they have a right to know.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#20
Re: Objecting to Non-conformances

Slightly :topic:

What strikes me with some of the recent threads, including this one, is the significant variation in service delivery by CB's and their auditors. Obviously some CBs are failing to educate and/or monitor their auditors performance on the field.

A few, including myself, make a case against the commoditization of the auditing and certification service line. These threads just corroborate the point that there are (sometimes significant) differences amongst CB's and auditors.
 
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