I had assumed that folks would understand that I had delivered RABQSA and IRCA courses having been accepted by both of those organizations as a qualified trainer and that I was been speaking in very general terms. Sorry about the "assumption" because of how I must look to others...continuing on
My point was simply to draw a distinction between the learning outcomes from each of the accreditation course criteria. If you don't want to answer my point then just ignore it ... simple!
I'm not going to get drawn into the relative merits of the trainer approval process - another thread. Let's just say my experience of the quality of trainers indicates they follow the same 'normal' distribution as the auditor pool they are generally drawn from. Ranging between awful and excellent.
Also, IRCA only recommends, it doesn't mandate any understanding prior, and the training organization you identified at "random" doesn't mandate or require basic understanding either
The reason is it is a 'mandatory requirement' that is impossible to assess. My concern is that the vast majority of training providers do not even attempt to follow the spirit of the requirement so you end up with each lead auditor course starting with a very mixed level of knowledge of the management system standard and that means the knowledgeable students are held back while the trainer(s) desperately try and cram the respective ISO or (as in this case OHSAS) knowledge into the heads of the weaker students.
There is little enough time on the course to give knowledgeable students the grounding in auditing to the standard without spending half the course cramming.
We reap what we sow ... you only have to look around the threads here and elsewhere to see the customer view of the long tail of third party assessors.
Perhaps if these auditors had received a bit more training in auditing on their course they'd be better at it now?
I don't claim to be an expert and never will, but I kinda know a small bit about this subject and its evolution.
Now I'll have to erase from my mind all the posts you've made in the past that tell us everything you've done over your career ... and I'll then buy in to your new modest Randy persona.
Back on track...
I've (me, personally) I've historically found the best students to be those that come in with a clean slate so to speak.
Agreed. The training organization I ran had data that showed that the most successful students were female and straight out of college and the least successful were middle aged men with a wealth of knowledge in the particular field. I won't go into the analysis as to why - again that's another thread.
The point is not who is best placed to pass the exam but who makes the best auditor - in my mind both groups above provide a strong potential base.
So, Randy. If you do want to come back on my one point it is this:
- Students on a lead auditor course should have a broad understanding of the management systems standard before they start
Or you could just have a pop and blow smoke up my a**.