OJT Training Records for Supervisors??

L

Lewis

#1
Our TS16949:2002 registrar has stated that OJT records for supervisor's are necessary? I don't understand why. Could someone please shed some light on this subject for me?

:confused:
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Howdy, Lewis, welcome to the Cove!!!


There are two parts to this requiremnts. 1) OJT for personnel in any new or modified job affecting product quality and 2) appropriate records of education, training, skills and experience.

Now, I would assume that supervisors have jobs that could affect product quality, and you may have actually stated so. this often occurs when an auditor askes how you know the supervisors are competent. The common reply is they were trained on the job (or something like that).

Now, the very next question from the auditor is; "Where are the records?" A very logical question. Your answer must be equally logical. If you say; "We don't have any." Then why not?

The real question here is are supervisor OJT records "appropriate"? What purpose do they serve, and why should we have them. I for one, and not totally convinced they are appropriate. I also think a list of "grandfathered" employees is not necessarily appropriate. If we keep a record just for the sake of meeting a regiatrar's request, the record is not appropriate (IMO). There are others who will undoubtedly dissagree.

Typically, that is the way I would present it to the auditor. Let us know how this turns out, and why the auditor thinks they are appropriate.
 
A

Al Dyer

#3
Lewis,

Nice to have you aboard!!

Are we talking about brand new supervisors or experienced supervisors that have already proven themselves?

Are you already registered?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How can an auditor ask for a training record for an employee that was trained and/or experienced before a formal system was put in place?

Unless they are just looking for a bogus record to :ca: !

As db said, grandfathering is not a good way to go, just alot of useless paperwork. Past OTJ training, is just that, in the past. The company has surely improved and set new internal training standards to follow. Those should be the goal!

If in doubt, ask the auditor how he/she was trained.

-On the job?
-Classes?
-Past experience? (maybe not documented)
-Who trained the person who trained the auditor?
-What was their training?

-How has the registrar that employs an auditor documented how have they have been trained? And by whom?

-Has the entity/person who trained the registrar have ample training records to indicate proficiency?

Just trying to show that there is a gap in the process and that it is the registree(sp) that usually gets screwed in the process unless they have the ammunition and can face down (in a calm manner) an auditor and prove how his/her system works.

Anybody have the details as to what clause would be violated by not having an experienced supervisor prove that their OJT in the last decade really happened?

As always looking for additional input,

Al...
 
#4
Key words;
Affecting product quality?
What is your definition of product quality.
Having made that determination then ask; What is the supervisors role in affecting product quality? Also is this person a real supervisor or just a line worker saddeled with supervisor responsibilities?
IMO, if the supervisor is performing work on line then OJT would be required, if not then I don,t see the need.
 
L

Lewis

#5
Thanks for all of the replies. Everyone of which expresses a very good point. This gives me some ammo to go back to our registrar with. I agree that having training records for line personnel are necessary, but not for Supervisors.

Now, a little background.
We underwent our initial TS registration audit back in January, but was defferred. We just had our follow-up visit the first week of April and have now been recommended. We’re just awaiting that little piece of paper to hang on the wall.


:D
 
#6
We just had our follow-up visit the first week of April and have now been recommended. We’re just awaiting that little piece of paper to hang on the wall.
Congrats!!!!!!!!!!! :agree:


One quick question. How was the requirement for all of your suppliers to be registered to ISO 9K2K met/handled?
 
R

Randy Stewart

#7
Training

Why should I have to produce training records at all??? If I deem someone competent at a certain skill or job, why do I have to go any further. What if s/he passed a test based on prior employment, or aquired skill? The company sets requirements and it is up to the company to ensure their people can perform the work.
Yes we have training records and tests. I just have issues with these non-value added records & paperwork. :bonk:
 
L

Lewis

#8
One quick question. How was the requirement for all of your suppliers to be registered to ISO 9K2K met/handled?
We sent out a request to all suppliers inquiring about their plans to become ISO9000:2000 registered. If they didn't respond, or if their response was inadequate, then a customer waiver to use that supplier was sought. If not already ISO9000:2000 registered, then the supplier must have at least a plan to become ISO9000:2000 registered.
 
L

Lewis

#9
Why should I have to produce training records at all??? If I deem someone competent at a certain skill or job, why do I have to go any further. What if s/he passed a test based on prior employment, or aquired skill? The company sets requirements and it is up to the company to ensure their people can perform the work.
If a person is competent to perform an existing job, then I don't think a record is really an issue. I think it becomes an issue when a person performs a new or modified job where the employee does not have any prior experience in the matter.
 
T

tattva

#10
Not one of my suppliers is ISO 9001:2000 certfified, they´re all in transition.

Can a program of detailed actions, like a Gant schedule or a program specifying date of implementation audit deal with it?
:bigwave:
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
B Is On The Job Training (OJT) Required? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 22
B On The Job Training (OJT) requirements in ISO 9001:2008 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
S Evidence of Effectiveness of OJT (On the Job Training) - ISO 9001 Clause 6.2.2 Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 24
M Contract Personnel On the Job (OJT) Training - TS 16949 Para. 6.2.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
I How can I provide evidence of On-the-job training (OJT)? TS 16949 Para. 6.2.2.3 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 13
T HR QP Procedures For Training - OJT - In-House Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
Marc OJT - On The Job Training ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
C Controls and Preventions are not "OJT", "Ample Supply" & "Supervisor Verification" FMEA and Control Plans 4
Anonymous16-2 Labelling Training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 3
J Recommendations for online ISO 19011 training? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 6
J Looking for a training organization that can provide in house DFMEA training FMEA and Control Plans 4
A AS9100 Training - Where do I start? AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11
R What's the major difference between Green Belt and Black Belt in term of training and project Six Sigma 3
S ISO 13485 Lead Auditor - Debate between our Quality Team and Regulatory Auditor - Internal Auditor Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 17
I Where can I beg, steal (just kidding of course) or borrow good training material on the ISO 9001:2015 standard? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
JAMESH Building a "Lean" Job Shop Training Program Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 0
I Does training have to be written? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
I Root Cause Analysis as Training ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 10
Q Regulations for Medical Device Kit for Training Personnel? 21 CFR Part 820 - US FDA Quality System Regulations (QSR) 1
S Can we provide training plan as corrective action for IATF 16949 Non conformity? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 9
S IRCA Lead Auditor training and Exam tips Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
N ... and some have greatness thrust upon them - Training for novice QA manager ? Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 6
C Looking for APQP Training recommendations preferably in the aerospace industry APQP and PPAP 2
B VDA 6.3 Qualification as Process Auditor training course and exam VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 0
L Hazardous Waste - Tips for creating standardized training Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 2
R ISO 13485 QMS Implementation Training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 7
R How to keep track of employee read-only training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 13
I "On the job training" as a response to how someone was trained? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 75
J Getting training either from ASQ or from SAI Global - ISO 9001 Lead Auditor training Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
I Date of Quality Management System - Training Records ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
R ISO 13485 and QMS related concepts Training - Small medical device startup company ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 9
R Training Matrix for Document revisions ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
I Training records and "grandfather" clauses ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
S Education authority requires approval of all courses - Training services provider ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
S ISO 9001 Clause 8.3 - Design & Development for training course center ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
M ESD (Electrostatic Discharge) Training Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 2
S Is Annual QMS Training Required? ISO 13485 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
D ISO 9001:2015 Internal Audit Training Advice Internal Auditing 10
C Recommendations for UK-based ISO 13485 internal auditor training ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
A ISO9001:2015 Document control and training aids ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
J Customer VDA Audit - We must provide refresher training? VDA Standards - Germany's Automotive Standards 4
T QMS Training for my organization - IATF16949 and also AS9100 or 9145 Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
J Dr Training Records - Training doctors to use a PMA approved medical device Other US Medical Device Regulations 2
A Medical device CER (clinical evaluation report) training/seminar services EU Medical Device Regulations 2
R Addressing training requirements - 21 CFR Part 820.25 (1) & (2) Other US Medical Device Regulations 4
Z Training Qualification Matrix for ISO 9001:2015 Audit General Auditing Discussions 8
I ISO 9001:2015 - On the Job Training and Records Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 4
I What level of change in documentation requires re-training? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 5
cscalise Determination of CPD (Continuing Professional Development) hours for a training course Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 1
L Training Timeliness Training - Internal, External, Online and Distance Learning 2

Similar threads

Top Bottom