Open Space Meeting in UK

[David Hartman]

This sounds like it might be benefitial toward influencing the future of ISO9000, if you have the ability to attend.

http://www.bin.co.uk/pages/BSI_Orange_OS.pdf

 

[Randy]

There is something similar going on here in the states. BSI Americas calls it BSI Days or something like that. The benefits and other issues are discussed and of course all the promotional stuff occurs. I've been tapped to be one of the folks that do these things in the past and will probably do some in the future.

 

[energy]

Familiar

This sounds like it might be benefitial toward influencing the future of ISO9000, if you have the ability to attend.

http://www.bin.co.uk/pages/BSI_Orange_OS.pdf

Boy, that link looks familiar. Wish I could afford to go and meet the Promoter.

 

[Marc]

Jim Wade - Multiple Personality

Based upon the e-mail address we are, of course, referring to Jim Wade --> [email protected] - the person who came here to the forums, established multiple identities and proceeded to play people against each other as if this was all just a big game.

IMHO Jim has a significant personality problem considering his 'multiple personality' here in the forums. Jim baited people - trying to see how fast he could **** people off.

Recently Jim wrote me and asked if he could join the forums again. I said Yes, but:
With much hesitation, I wrote Jim this:

It’s less of a matter of being ‘good’. It is the problem that you purposefully created multiple accounts and played people against each other. You were often rude and many people were quite offended.

After a day of discussions, we have decided to let you register and participate again. Of all people, energy was the one who made the difference. Whilst he did not defend you ‘glowingly’, he did make the difference.

However, you must do a few things.

1. You must register under the name Jim Wade.

2. After you re-register I expect you to start a new thread titled “I apologise” in the Coffee Break forum, tell us all of your identities from the past. And I want an apology, therein, with a brief description of what you did, and why, for the problems you caused me and others.

3. You will not use the ‘Better than thou’ tone which your are famous for. Many comments which came up during the discussion were as follows:
“I can't stand the guy. He is an arrogant, childish snob. I always found he took every opportunity (well, not every...but a lot) to be argumentative, especially when calling his card.”
“I believe he was somewhat arrogant (the pot calling the kettle black here)”
“I don't think I have to remind anyone about the major uproar we had here, and how much calmer the Forums have been lately. I simply do not want to see a repeat performance.”
"Well, someone has to bring it up. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The question I would ask is what's different. Why would Jim behave differently?”

4. If you get into tag team mode with Martin Greenaway, you’ll be gone again for good.

Point: Jim writes some very good stuff, but he's a few degress off plumb. I'm waiting for his explaination.... Jim is welcome to rejoin us, but not as a fraud. And I require the 'confession'.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Right to reply?

Let me start by saying I do not condone the multiple personality thing.

Whilst I understand that there may be opinions about any forum member (I certainly have a few) I'm not sure this hanging, drawing and quartering in public moves the forum forward any way.

It is Marc's forum, and he can do what he likes, but to question Jim Wade's character and put conditions on him returning that amount to rubbing his nose in it isn't exactly an encouragement to come back in and contribute, and this is my point (at long last!): I enjoyed Jim's postings and I would welcome the chance for him to return because he does think a little differently. I don't always agree with him, we have had run ins from his first entry into the cove (remember the "you don't need internal audit thread?") but surely that is the point, the postings are to either ask for help or to put your opinion out there to be challenged (In the end we agreed to disagree on audits).

You may not like the opinion and it is every member's right to challenge it but, to my mind it is far worse to lapse into personal criticism than to try and toy with the rules of the cove to present an argument (or series of points of view if you're listening Jim!)

 

[M Greenaway]

Well said Paul.

Can I add that if you ever get to see this guy in person, either at one of his events, or on a more social meeting, or read some of his excellent articles you would realise that he is a first class presenter, orator, writer and wit.

A true gentleman who has the courage of his convictions, and the balls to actually be out there, in the faces of British industry and the British quality industry, shaking the docile bar stewards by the neck - and thank god for him doing that !!

I also do not swallow everything he says, hook line and sinker, and we have had strong disagreement, especially on internal audit, however he always has the decency to respond to my persistent questioning with intelligent and reasoned argument, unlike others who just post snide comments, eye rolls, and guffaws, or even just totally blank every post I make.

We should be honoured that someone of his calibre actually bothers to engage in this forum.

The perception of arrogance and talking down is probably more in the minds of the inferiority complexes that take such exception to him !

 

[energy]

In Jim's defense, Your Honor

Well said Paul.

It used to always be "Well said, Jim". Particularly if there was heated debate with someone else not from over there. You are a contributor, as I was, to the ultimate "perception" of Jim. I, and some others, battled him and you egged him on. I even suggested that you two get a room or use the phone. You were the Dynamic Duo.

I also do not swallow everything he says, hook line and sinker, and we have had strong disagreement, especially on internal audit, however he always has the decency to respond to my persistent questioning with intelligent and reasoned argument,

This was, IMO, the Good Cop/Bad Cop thing choreographed to demonstrate that you weren't the fawning, let me carry your bag, Oh Great Wise One, type of guy.

unlike others who just post snide comments, eye rolls, and guffaws,

This is what you're best at. Sugar coated derision. Just say it, Man. I understand. Anybody in mind? You're to be listened to because you say all the right things, and you're so, so smart.

or even just totally blank every post I make.

Blank? Like delete? Or does that mean disagree, with sarcasm, the arrogance/tone of your posts? Oh Dear, I said that "A" word.

We should be honoured that someone of his calibre actually bothers to engage in this forum.

I agree and have said so. Just not while genuflecting.

The perception of arrogance and talking down is probably more in the minds of the inferiority complexes that take such exception to him !

Just another sophisticated way of saying that Jim and you are somehow superior beings, and the rest of us should aspire to be just like you. This is vintage Greenaway. This self imagined superiority comes across in some of those posts and guess what? Nobody likes it. Surprised? I find it odd, well not so odd really, only Jim's Countrymen have posted to defend his honor in this thread. This across the pond thing was also an area where a lot of animousity was created. Remember the America - England thing? I mean, that got ugly. It was deliberate and meant to inflame us "dumb" American clods. And, it did. Some of us responded in a not so "polished" manner. Water under the bridge. Now we have the Political threads in which to vent our hatreds.

Let me be the first member, on this side of the Atlantic, to say, I would welcome Jim back. He knows this. The conditions for returning are not mine to make. But, I don't consider it to be "rubbing his nose in it". I would do it. I have apologized a few times, as you well know, and it's not that difficult. I like being here. Jim enjoys it here, as do the rest of us. I consider it a tall order for Jim to fill, but well within his means. Like: I was Nosmo and energy wanted me. I was Tom and energy wanted to strangle me. I'm really Martin and nobody likes me. Stuff like that. A simple list and a apology. What? It's undignified? Apology? How dare you?
Lastly, this post should come as no surprise to you. Jim, Mike, Martin and energy were main players in those out of control debates. We all created the conditions that led to Jim donning new identitities to escape the bombardment from over here. Nosmo and Tom, the only ones we're sure about, displayed the same proficiency in interpreting the Standard as Jim. Well, of course they would. Tom, though, made a few enemies along the way. Why's that? I mean, why mix it up again? Unless, You like it. There were some other strange characters that would appear for awhile, start some crap and then disappear. I'm not saying they were Jim. We're talking "Perception" here. I say if Jim wants to return, he'll do what has to be done. if not, he and I can continue to occasionally converse via the Internet.

 

[M Greenaway]

Was there really any need for that last post energy ?

Dont let this 'super moderator' or 'sheriff', or whatever it is you are go to your head old man.You are supposed to 'moderate' now, not continue to 'instigate'.

 

[energy]

Yes it was

Was there really any need for that last post energy ?

Dont let this 'super moderator' or 'sheriff', or whatever it is you are go to your head old man.You are supposed to 'moderate' now, not continue to 'instigate'.

You should have your say about the situation and that's that? In fact, you are the instigator for the very reasons I mentioned. Paul had his say and I would have not responded to him. Your post was meant to be snide and critical of those that disagreed with you or Jim.

As for letting the Sheriff/Super Moderator get to my head and your reference to my age, that's typical Greenaway. They're your demons, not mine. You posted your thoughts about that in the Humour Thread. You also rejoiced at my employment situation. Believe me, I got the message. I know precisely where you are coming from. Too bad. It's done. Live with it.

My posts are no different now than a couple of years ago. You got a case of the a** over some of them, too. I tell it like I see it. You used Paul's excellent post as an excuse to practice the art of Egging. Being a Moderator does not mean that I sit back and allow you condemn the decision made that would allow Jim to come back. But, you didn't stop there, did you?
On second thought, maybe you're right. I could have just expunged your post and let Paul's stand alone. His doesn't contain remarks about member's inferiority complexes and how he got "blanked" on when he posted his words of wisdom. Act like a Moderator. I'll have to remember that.

 

[Randy Stewart]

He (Jim) hasn't even logged on yet, as far as I can tell, and look at the posts already!
I'm not trying to take sides but I know that over all the English are viewed as uppity by us "colonials"!
I don't know, maybe Jim and Martin do it to push issues, maybe it is a different brand of humor who knows.
Living in Scotland for 3 years and traveling around I noticed that it is the culture not really the people that makes it seem stuffy to us. I didn't get the feeling (after a while) that they look down their noses at us, rather the wildness of the americans is not readily accepted in the culture.
There was a Lockheed Tech Rep that lived close to where I was staying, he brought his Corvette over with him! He would race up and down the narrow streets making a real nuisance of himself.
I know there was some real issues with the "multiple personalities" and some people were really bothered by them. I'm not trying to stand up for that, but I do know that I've been in contact with Jim since and I never got the feeling that he was trying to put one over on me.