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Operational QMS (Dubai) vs. compliant QMS (UK)

P

Peter West

#1
Dear Coveists,

Happy Easter. I hope you are all having a good one. I unfortunately am working as there is no Easter bank holiday in the Middle East. Grrr.

I have been charged with leaving our UK offices (where a certified QMS has been up and running for many years) and moving to Dubai to set up the foundations of a QMS.

I have noticed that in order for procedures etc to be followed here in Dubai, they need to be simple to such a degree that I wonder how much of a structured system can actually be implemented.

I see little problem with filing systems and document management however the introduction of new procedures and documents (i.e. a quality project plan with details such as scope of project, sub-consultants to be used, key personnel involved in verification) is going to be a lot more challenging.

I have been told "if it is complicated, people won't use it, if it is too different, people won't use it, if it is too detailed, people won't use it".

I am almost stumped as to how I can simultaneously cover the ISO's requirements, provide benefit to the company's operations AND ensure/keep people working to the procedure. 2 out of 3 at the moment is all I can get.

Any experience of similar problems, or of handling different work mentalities (internationally) would be greatly appreciated.
 
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harry

Super Moderator
#2
Re: Operational QMS (Dubai) vs compliant QMS (UK)

I have noticed that in order for procedures etc to be followed here in Dubai, they need to be simple to such a degree that I wonder how much of a structured system can actually be implemented.
I can feel your pain and its quite common in the non-English speaking world.

Wouldn't it be better to:
1. Get them to document what they do and how they do in a simple manner such as bullet form and in their language.
2. Identify any weaknesses and correct it
3. Identify any gaps w.r.t ISO 9001 requirements and fill it.
4. Discuss, explain why changes are necessary, get agreement and pass it back to them for implementation.

Sorry, I am assuming that you are trying to get them to implement a workable system transplanted from else where.

On second thought, you could be trying to extend and implement the system from UK to your Dubai office - in which case, you need to also fill the gap between what they do there and your HQ (if you desire to have one common system). Common flow charts could be one way to overcome this because flow-charting interpretation is quite universal. I had done this for our quantity surveying arm.
 
Last edited:
P

Peter West

#3
Re: Operational QMS (Dubai) vs compliant QMS (UK)

Thanks for that I like the idea of using our existing flowcharts along with a gap analysis I am completing at the moment.

I am trying to use as much of the UK's existing system as possible here so we can maintain a degree of international uniformity. I expect to be implementing the QMS in a few other places after this.

I am off to print out the charts and sit with a few people.

Thanks again
 

Peter Fraser

Trusted Information Resource
#4
Re: Operational QMS (Dubai) vs compliant QMS (UK)

Thanks for that I like the idea of using our existing flowcharts along with a gap analysis I am completing at the moment.

I am trying to use as much of the UK's existing system as possible here so we can maintain a degree of international uniformity. I expect to be implementing the QMS in a few other places after this.

I am off to print out the charts and sit with a few people.

Thanks again
Peter

One problem you may find is that (I am told) that there is a cultural "challenge" in the Middle East whereby there can be a reluctance to see in black and white that "I am responsible " for doing something. Nevertheless, we do have a UK user who opened an office in Dubai a couple of years ago and have used the same (flowcharted) system for both offices.
 
S

Sam4Quality

#5
Originally Posted by Peter West


Dear Coveists,

Happy Easter. I hope you are all having a good one. I unfortunately am working as there is no Easter bank holiday in the Middle East. Grrr.

I have been charged with leaving our UK offices (where a certified QMS has been up and running for many years) and moving to Dubai to set up the foundations of a QMS.

I have noticed that in order for procedures etc to be followed here in Dubai, they need to be simple to such a degree that I wonder how much of a structured system can actually be implemented.

I see little problem with filing systems and document management however the introduction of new procedures and documents (i.e. a quality project plan with details such as scope of project, sub-consultants to be used, key personnel involved in verification) is going to be a lot more challenging.

I have been told "if it is complicated, people won't use it, if it is too different, people won't use it, if it is too detailed, people won't use it".

I am almost stumped as to how I can simultaneously cover the ISO's requirements, provide benefit to the company's operations AND ensure/keep people working to the procedure. 2 out of 3 at the moment is all I can get.

Any experience of similar problems, or of handling different work mentalities (internationally) would be greatly appreciated.


Welcome to the jungle, Peter! Contrary to the quality-responsible countries like Europe, America, India and others, unfortunately, Quality as such is conspicously in its nascent stage here in the Middle east. I am working in Kuwait for the past 5 years, and what can I say about the quality culture here! Its absolutely pathetic and irresponsible here to say the least. There are definitely a few internationally recognised companies here who do follow the norms and standards; however, they too are dragged into the vortex of the so-called 'chill' culture here!

No matter how much you try to get them in line :whip:, difficulties are abound. I am not discouraging you here, just trying to tell you build a strong ethical wall around you to avoid being sucked in by the 'vortex'!

Yes, you will need to develop a very simple system here, and despite the simplicity, you will need to constantly be on your toes to make them implement it and maintain it. Though, I cannot say in the same sense as Dubai, where you are based. Unfortunately, ignorance still triumphs here!

Inspite of all that I cribbed above, you CAN develop a fine system, non-complicated and simplistic for everyone to understand. Use these simple rules:
1. They have to be spoon-fed on the QMS
2. They all hate paper work, especially writing what they are already doing. I have a Maintenance guy here who does not maintain machine maintenance records (for mfg plant) despite repeatedly throwing NC's at him. Reason? If the machine is running, what's the paper for! :mad:
3. Use the 'I-am-your-friend-lets-do-it-together' approach, not the 'You-have-to-do-what-I-say' approach. 'I' can also mean 'standards'. :D
4. Despite their ability to read procedures and use a simple form having the entire process link, you will need to explain them how to use it.
5. After repeatedly telling them, the QMS is everyone's responsibility, they still feel it is the MR's responsibility. Why else do we have a QA Dept then?

I have not touched, technically how simple a documentation you can develop, but these pointers will help you to develop the forced relationship with them to implement the system, I ....hope!

Hope this helps!

Ciao.:cool:
 
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