Opportunity in ISO 9001:2015

jgc60

Registered
I heard from one ISO 9001 trainer/speaker that Opportunity is the same as the action to address risk. What is your thought about this ?
 

Johnny Quality

Quite Involved in Discussions
I think this is because of 0.3.3 Risk-based thinking.

It tries to cover "negative risk", "positive risk" (?!?) and "opportunities" and describes them like rules for drawing Monopoly chance cards.

It makes my brain itch to why ISO decided to make it's own definition of risk as "the effect of uncertainty and any such uncertainty can have positive or negative effects " when the defined definition in the English language can only be negative.
 

John Predmore

Trusted Information Resource
Risk is evaluated based on its Likelihood and potential Impact on us. We generally focus on negative risk because the potential impact on us is undesirable. If we plan for a future event which is positive, but it never happens the way we wanted, I guess that would also be negative risk. What if we consider a future positive occurrence, but it happens sooner than we imagined or greater than we imagined, so we were unprepared and unable to take full advantage of the future positive opportunity. Would that be positive or negative risk?
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Leader
Super Moderator
Risk is evaluated based on its Likelihood and potential Impact on us. We generally focus on negative risk because the potential impact on us is undesirable. If we plan for a future event which is positive, but it never happens the way we wanted, I guess that would also be negative risk. What if we consider a future positive occurrence, but it happens sooner than we imagined or greater than we imagined, so we were unprepared and unable to take full advantage of the future positive opportunity. Would that be positive or negative risk?
Now my brain itches.
 

Tagin

Trusted Information Resource
Unfortunately, 9000:2015 does not explicitly provide a definition of 'opportunity'
However, 9000:2015 defines risk as "effect of uncertainty".
Note 1 of that definition says "An effect is a deviation from the expected — positive or negative".

So, combining these, we could say:
  • Opportunity: a positive deviation from the expected, arising from a given uncertainty.
  • Risk: a negative deviation from the expected, arising from a given uncertainty.
 

John Broomfield

Leader
Super Moderator
Seizing opportunities (to serve) while avoiding loss is what humans tend to do at work (as suppliers and customers) and at play.

Your organization (working as a system) is no different, so make sure that its management system is based on that reality.

Just make sure that striving to prove risk-based thinking does not have us creating a fiction.
 

Jim Wynne

Leader
Admin
Unfortunately, 9000:2015 does not explicitly provide a definition of 'opportunity'
However, 9000:2015 defines risk as "effect of uncertainty".
Note 1 of that definition says "An effect is a deviation from the expected — positive or negative".
I don't have 9000:2015, but if you've quoted the definition of risk in its entirety, there's an important word missing: Risk is the potential effect of uncertainty. I would prefer potential result rather than "effect," but that's a small point. The positive/negative bit is nothing but ridiculous. There's a word for encountering something positive while looking for something else--"serendipity." It has nothing to do with risk assessment though.
So, combining these, we could say:
  • Opportunity: a positive deviation from the expected, arising from a given uncertainty.
  • Risk: a negative deviation from the expected, arising from a given uncertainty.
Opportunity for what?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
Opportunity isn't defined, but implication is towards chance or potential for something positive that's a quality related topic
 

Tagin

Trusted Information Resource
I don't have 9000:2015, but if you've quoted the definition of risk in its entirety, there's an important word missing: Risk is the potential effect of uncertainty. I would prefer potential result rather than "effect," but that's a small point. The positive/negative bit is nothing but ridiculous. There's a word for encountering something positive while looking for something else--"serendipity." It has nothing to do with risk assessment though.

I quoted it in its entirety. Its followed by six notes to clarify what they mean by their meager definition. :)

Opportunity for what?

Don't mistake me for an advocate of their approach. :) I'm just trying to convey their intent, as best I understand!
9001:2015 0.3.3 gives us this example of their thinking:
Opportunities can arise as a result of a situation favourable to achieving an intended result, for example, a set of circumstances that allow the organization to attract customers, develop new products and services, reduce waste or improve productivity. Actions to address opportunities can also include consideration of associated risks. Risk is the effect of uncertainty and any such uncertainty can have positive or negative effects. A positive deviation arising from a risk can provide an opportunity, but not all positive effects of risk result in opportunities
 
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