Outsider feedback on quality manual wanted

T

tmoreau

#31
At document review the auditor said "During stage 2 we can talk about the interaction between the processes" but it never actually came up during the audit. I think AndyN is either looking for greater complexity (which I relate to confusion), or believes he knows something additional about my business that has been left out of this document.

In that regard, as has been discussed before, little attention is paid to Shipping because frankly when something needs to be shipped... it gets shipped (there is a procedure). This particular event is NOT an indicator of where in the process you are. With the tool shop, trial molding house, and production molding house in three different states, the several rounds of trials that are typical, customer driven engineering changes, performance driven engineering changes... describing this process in a high level map is not only unnecasary, but tremendously counter productive. If AndyN were auditing my facility and decided to pick at this pet scab (and each auditor has one, depending on their background) we would be looking at specific purchase orders and contracts, not a pre-defined process. With disperse facilities, shipping is like forklift transit, and who puts that on a top level process map?
 
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Jim Wynne

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#32
At document review the auditor said "During stage 2 we can talk about the interaction between the processes" but it never actually came up during the audit. I think AndyN is either looking for greater complexity (which I relate to confusion), or believes he knows something additional about my business that has been left out of this document.

In that regard, as has been discussed before, little attention is paid to Shipping because frankly when something needs to be shipped... it gets shipped (there is a procedure).
Two quick observations: in the "business processes" diagram, you show inputs to management review, but internal audit results are nowhere to be seen. In fact, from the manual alone, there's no evidence of an internal audit process even existing. Also, with regard to your statement that stuff gets shipped, and there's a procedure, I think it's safe to assume that stuff does get shipped, but the standard requires reference to the documents required by the quality management system. If your shipping procedure is something that needs to be followed to prevent customer unhappiness, there should be reference to it in the QM.
 
J

JaneB

#33
There's always a limit in what people can do to comment on something in the Cove - we're not there, we can't see what you see, nor can we see what an auditor on the spot sees. We can only go on what is presented, which is a document almost 'in isolation' which is always a bit tricky.

Tmoreau, You've passed the first hurdle, which is good. Now of course you will start on the endless journey of improvement; that often includes adjusting the documentation as well, as you discover what works or fits better, and as your people get used to working within a system (as opposed to what's just 'in their heads').

PS, I wouldn't equate 'greater complexity' with 'confusion' ever. They are not the same. A byproduct of greater complexity may be confusion, but doesn't have to be. Indeed, often a real challenge is making something quite complex into something that looks (at least at first) relatively simple.
 
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