Outsourced Process - Why certain "processes" are not included - ISO9001-2008

[quality1]

Our CB just asked us a question on outsourced processes of why certain "processes" are not included? A bit of back ground, our headquater is in another state, they perform Design&Development, Engineering, IT Support, Customer Services, Sales and Marketing. We the factory run protoptypes from design and development and run manufacturing orders from Sales.

Both sites have different QMS and certificates.

Are we (factory) suppose to list our headquarter as an outsourced process for design & development, engineering & IT support? and our headquater would list us as an outsourced process for prototypes and order fulfillment?

Any comments or suggestion is appreciated.

 

[Randy]

Re: Outsourced Process - ISO9001-2008

What!

For gosh sakes I wouldn't think so, you define the scope of your system and what you intend to manage and your audit and certificate reflect upon that.

As for "outsourcing" ya'll are in the same, happy family, you're not an outsourced process, I 'd say you're more of an "internal" supplier...The way you've described it there is still an internal organizational relationship in how you're structured and achieve Product Realization (all that Clause 7 stuff)

 

[AndyN]

Re: Outsourced Process - ISO9001-2008

What!

For gosh sakes I wouldn't think so, you define the scope of your system and what you intend to manage and your audit and certificate reflect upon that.

As for "outsourcing" ya'll are in the same, happy family, you're not an outsourced process, I 'd say you're more of an "internal" supplier...The way you've described it there is still an internal organizational relationship in how you're structured and achieve Product Realization (all that Clause 7 stuff)

Not entirely! If this site only produces the product designed at the HQ site, how can they claim a separate certificate and exclude design and have the CB endorse that? Surely, the 'company' wherever they carry out business is responsible for design and, thus cannot exclude it...I could see a case if they perform manufacturing for paying customers, but Id like to see the scope statements...

 

[Randy]

Re: Outsourced Process - ISO9001-2008

Not entirely! If this site only produces the product designed at the HQ site, how can they claim a separate certificate and exclude design and have the CB endorse that? Surely, the 'company' wherever they carry out business is responsible for design and, thus cannot exclude it...I could see a case if they perform manufacturing for paying customers, but Id like to see the scope statements...

OP stated "Both sites have different QMS and certificates."

Who really knows what is going on out there? Not I

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Outsourced Process - ISO9001-2008

Any comments or suggestion is appreciated.

According to the wisdom available in the ISO 9001:2008 Introduction and support package : Guidance on 'Outsourced processes',

As mentioned in the Note, in some situations, the organization might not “purchase” the outsourced process in the traditional sense; it might, for example, receive the service from a corporate head office or from another division within a group of organizations, without any monetary transaction taking place (see 2.1 above). Under these circumstances, however, ISO 9001:2008 Clauses 7.4 and 4.1 are still applicable

 

[somashekar]

Your QMS scope could be of a contract manufacture and then the design is not an outsourced process, but a customer input.
If the HQ has a scope of design and manufacture, then for them you are an outsourced process and your QMS revolves around what the HQ (customer) needs as you being contract manufacturing for them with your own QMS.
Do you demand something from the HQ, that you cannot process, but have ownership of that process .. ? Then that process is outsourced, either to the HQ or anyone else.
See how IT support, Engineering for example fits into outsourced process ... ?
Very clearly, sales and marketing & customer service are not your scope so there is no question of outsourcing it.

 

[qusys]

Our CB just asked us a question on outsourced processes of why certain "processes" are not included? A bit of back ground, our headquater is in another state, they perform Design&Development, Engineering, IT Support, Customer Services, Sales and Marketing. We the factory run protoptypes from design and development and run manufacturing orders from Sales.

Both sites have different QMS and certificates.

Are we (factory) suppose to list our headquarter as an outsourced process for design & development, engineering & IT support? and our headquater would list us as an outsourced process for prototypes and order fulfillment?

Any comments or suggestion is appreciated.

Was this a non conformity? On what occasion was this raised up?
Probably your CB should help in addressing this, I do not know.
I have seen other organizations like yours that adopted a corporate scheme certification. I do not know if it also applies to you .

 

[Peter Fraser]

Re: Outsourced Process - ISO9001-2008

According to the wisdom available in the ISO 9001:2008 Introduction and support package : Guidance on 'Outsourced processes',

Sidney

Using this same logic, is "Headquarters" in this case not the Customer?

I seem to recall that many years ago ISO had notes on their website giving an example of a department which serviced railway carriages. When the scope of the QMS was just the Department, the Customer was the Head Office, but when the Scope was extended to the entire Organisation, the Customer changed to be the company which owned the carriages.

(Did I say "logic" above...?)

 

[Randy]

Be careful trying to use logic Peter, it escapes some folks like steam from a kettle

 

[Peter Fraser]

Be careful trying to use logic Peter, it escapes some folks like steam from a kettle

Randy

I know! Is that where common sense ends up too...?