Outsourced Processes vs. Contract Personnel

[Bumpebe1]

Outsourced processes

I would like to get some comments on outsourced processes and how it relates to contractors. The company I work for has contract employees performing our packaging, warehousing activities along with some maintenance work. I consider these as outsourced processes.

I thought I would look into the controls we have in place with the contractor. (Specifically in determining the necessary competence for personnel performing work affecting product quality. ) I spoke with the departments involved and was told that the "contractor provides us with qualified personnel."

I decided to review the contract we have with the contractor. All I found in the contract under Qualification was that contractor will provide us with "qualified" personnel.

I am requesting that the departments involve document the qualification/competence level for the positions we have contracted out. I am receiving some resistence from one of the departments involved.


I would appreciate hearing other thoughts on this.

 

[Al Dyer]

All I want to ask is:

Does your customer tell you what training your personnel require? You are on the correct track in that you need a level of supplier control to ensure your products meet your standards.

Could this possibly be handled through the contract process?

Some questions:

Is the supplier submitting bad product?
Can the bad product be traced to part-time/contract help?
Who is in charge of contract help and are they trained in any way?

Etc...

You are well advised to watch the suppliers/subcontractors to you, since you have the ultimate responsibility to the customer.

Great Question!!!!!!1

Al...

 

[Bumpebe1]

No. Our customers do not tell us what training our personnel require.

Yes, this should be handled through our contract review process. The company (chemical company) I work for was originally part of a large corporation that sold our division. The corporation we were a part of had also contracted these activities out. I think somewhere in the separation process this information did not transfer over.

The packaging contract personnel actually perform the packaging process (discharging material into drums, running the bagging equipment). We have received complaints from our customer due to not meeting a packaging requirements, i.e., package weight, labels.

The contractor is responsible for providing us with contractors with specific skills i.e., forklift, instrumentation, maintenance mechanics. The contractor provides a supervisor on-site to supervise these activities. The contractors are trained on our quality management system work procedures by their supervisor.

The logistics manager is responsible for the warehouse and packaging department. The Maintenance manager is responsible for the maintenance contract employees. The positions contracted out use to be hourly positions within the company.

 

[howste]

ISO 9001:2000 7.4.2 says "Purchasing information shall describe the product to be purchased, including where appropriate... requirements for qualification of personnel..." I would say in this case it's appropriate.

For the automotive world, TS 16949 is more specific about qualifications of personnel than ISO 9001:2000. It says "The organization shall provide on-the-job training for personnel in any new or modified job affecting product quality, including contract or agency personnel."

Even without that, IMO if they are doing work for you (especially if they are onsite at your facility), you have the right to require minimum qualifications for personnel. Absent that, you should at least expect them to determine what the qualifications should be and verify that personnel meet them.

My $.02

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Further support in 4.1...

Hi Bumpebe1,

Good question, and imo you're on the right track. See ISO9001:2000, clause 4.1:

Where an organization chooses to outsource any process that affects product conformity with requirements, the organization shall ensure control over such processes. Control of such outsourced processes shall be identified
within the quality management system.

Hopefully your previous owners had a grip on this. Couldn't they provide you with the information you need?

And welcome to the Cove

/Claes

 

[Bumpebe1]

I appreciate and thank everyone for their comments. I'm glad to hear that I am on the right track.

This is a great forum. I was very pleased to receive such quick responses.

Thanks again. You will be hearing more from me.

 

[Mike S.]

FWIW, whenever we used contract employees (or "temps") we treated them the same way as our company's employees from a training and competence standpoint. I'm not saying it can't be dome other ways, but for us we wanted the ultimate control over competence issues. The agency did basic screening, but for job-specific competence, we treated them like a company employee.

 

[Bumpebe1]

Thanks Mike. I like your company's approach.

 

[Bumpebe1]

Re: Further support in 4.1...

Originally posted by Claes Gefvenberg
Hi Bumpebe1,

Good question, and imo you're on the right track. See ISO9001:2000, clause 4.1:

Where an organization chooses to outsource any process that affects product conformity with requirements, the organization shall ensure control over such processes. Control of such outsourced processes shall be identified
within the quality management system.

Hopefully your previous owners had a grip on this. Couldn't they provide you with the information you need?

And welcome to the Cove

/Claes

Claes,

Thank you for the welcome.

As you have suggested I will contact our previous owners to obtain the information needed.

To be honest, I was quite surprised that we did not have this in place already.

 

[Claes Gefvenberg]

Happens to all of us...

Originally posted by Bumpebe1
---X---To be honest, I was quite surprised that we did not have this in place already.

Yeah.. I hear you, and let it be known that it happens to all of us.

There you are, thinking that you have everything under reasonable control, and what happens? You find another hole in the armour. I suppose that's one of the things that makes this line of work so interesting, eh?

/Claes