Outsourcing Internal Audits - Is this a bad idea?

S

sethhummel

#11
I've sold it.

It really depends on the what the compan needs, their culture and how they use their internal resources. For a small company it might make more sense than in a big company. It should be looked at situation by situation. It is impossible to make an definitive statement covering the whole topic.
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#13
atetsade said:
he enjoys thinking out loud
This doesn't really specifically go solely to internal audits. As a comment, I find it difficult myself to define the line between 'consulting' and 'auditing' at the independent auditor level whether its for a registrar or doing an internal audit for a small company.

The next thing you know I'm remembering a similar situation and want to say "You know, if you would ..... I wouldn't have a problem with this. But as it is now..." and such. I see what they're doing and they're technically not compliant yet they are achieving the goal / intent. Example: I sit in on a mgmt review. 50 employees. They're talking every day anyway. Owner is involved at the floor level daily. Allocation - equipment, human, etc. - of resources is discussed every day. But it's not specifically noted in their management review minutes. Maybe I'm still thinking 'Old School'.

I've ordered:

From Amazon (a sub, actually) I bought:
Automotive Quality Systems Handbook: New International Standards Requirements with Disk

From David Hoyle's site I bought:
ISO 9000:2000 Auditor Questions - Using the process approach
ISO/TS 16949:2002 Gap Analysis

I'll start a focused thread on this issue. Sorry to get off topic.
 
S

sethhummel

#14
yer tellin me

Best Registrar with the worst auditor

or

Worst Registrar with the best auditor

You take your pick...but you have to pick one or the other...

It is applicable to internal auditors as well...

Are they competent?
Do they understand their purpose?
etc.
 
I

ISO Druid

#15
Hi atetsade:
One important item ... who will audit the internal audit program? The outside service may have a vested interest in the audit process and therefore may not be independent. Typically I have seen clients handle this audit themselves, if they have subcontracted the internal audit process. There were comments regarding reviewing training records, include competencies as well. Assure that records are available and that the audit results are documented.

"I don't know. I guess it's a matter of our compliance to the standard and their philosophy. But the concern I'm having is that if I contract this third party to come in and do our first run of internal audits, am I going to be stuck with what they want to see done here?"
I would think that implementation issues would be addressed by your organization and the auditor evaluate whether the planned activities meet the requirements of the standard. A past registrar I worked for observed that auditors coming from 2nd party audit experience will tend to be prescriptive. Being prescriptive could be viewed as consultancy and should be avoided. If you find your auditing firm is not being objective in their auditing and reporting, discuss with the auditor, the management and if unable to resolve ... time for a new supplier.

"What questions should I ask of this potential auditor to get a good feel of what he's going to want to see?"
I would hope again here that we are talking about requirements about the standard and the various methods of implementing and complying with the requirements with compliance and within your budget. Unfortunately I have heard numerous horror stories of over zealous auditors prescribing systems that broke the organization financially and with no value-add.

I heard a quote from a GM employee regarding the value-add an auditor brings to the table ... and that is to effectively communicate where a company is not meeting requirements.

I can also send you a registrar evaluation article I wrote for the local ASQ if you like. ;)
 
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