Outsourcing of PPAP - Why isn't there an outlet for the Quality Department?

T

TheBigD

#1
Everything these days in business is being out sourced. For this reason I believe that quality departments will be reduced in size and companies will outsource the PPAP, CMM and other requirements to hungry start up companies. I have had this discussion with other Quality Managers. The consensus was that it would be ideal to find a company who you could turn to for PPAP support. Like a temporary agency for your quality department. Often I have the need for 3 or 4 more quality engineers for a three or four month period of time, and then the workload slows down and there is a surplus of salaries in my department.

Contract Quality Engineers are pricey, and consultants just tell you how to do it better or tell you where you are making mistakes.

Is there anyone out there that can provide temporary qualified assistance. If we can outsource the management of consumables or purchase temporary employees for the assembly line, why isn't there an outlet for the Quality Department?
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
TheBigD said:
Contract Quality Engineers are pricey, and consultants just tell you how to do it better or tell you where you are making mistakes.
Welcome to the Cove.:bigwave:Let me see if I understand your question--you want qualified people who aren't "pricey"? Good CMM operators and knowledgeable PPAP people are valuable commodities, even in the temp market.
 

Ron Rompen

Trusted Information Resource
#3
I agree completely....good QE's and CMM programmers are worth their weight in gold these days.

I have been scouted/recruited for several QE positions, and in each case I was offered considerably more $$$ to entice me away from my current employer. And no, I don't think I'm -=THAT=- good.....just that I do know my job, do know how to deal with customers, and am fairly conversant with all the AIAG standard requirements (QS9000, etc).

Good programmers are even HARDER to find.....especially when you run an obsolete system as we do.

We have used 3rd party sources from time to time, to help out with the crunch, or to do stuff that either we're not able to do, or are unsure of our accuracy when complete. In all cases, it cost a LOT of $$$, and the lead time was considerable.
 
Q

qualitygoddess - 2010

#4
There are a decent number of consultants who actually write PPAP's. I have done some for one of my former employers, but that's because I know the products and processes.

I think you might find a consultant in your industry who would do this for you. We don't all just 'tell you how to improve'. We also do the work, and our fees are not that much more expensive than a fully burdened QE on your staff.........check your local ASQ section. The membership committee might have some ideas.

--QG
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
qualitygoddess said:
There are a decent number of consultants who actually write PPAP's.
Without actually knowing what they're doing, in many cases (present company excluded, of course). There are two parts of PPAP, one of which is mostly clerical--the compiling of data and reports into a cogent package, and the concomitant organizational tasks. A person with at least some quality background (familiarity with dimensional reports, material test reports, etc.) can be trained to do this. But if PPAP is to be done effectively, there must be an existing system, with clearly defined responsibilities throughout the company, in place. The design and organization of the system is not a job for neophytes. Also, there must be someone who is conversant with all of the requirements and knows, for example, when GR&R data is at odds with capability analysis results, and when the control plan doesn't line up properly with the PFMEA. All of the PPAP elements are interconnected, and sometimes the relationships are not intuitive, so it's not enough to just make sure that there's paper behind every tab in the binder.
 
Q

qualitygoddess - 2010

#6
JSW05 said:
There are two parts of PPAP, one of which is mostly clerical--the compiling of data and reports into a cogent package, and the concomitant organizational tasks. A person with at least some quality background (familiarity with dimensional reports, material test reports, etc.) can be trained to do this. But if PPAP is to be done effectively, there must be an existing system, ..........
Yep, in agreement with ya on this one! That's why I could effectively put together a PPAP for my former employer. There was a system, and I knew it. Without specific experience in that company, I couldn't do it. That's why the consultant route for the thread starter might be an option, but I think it would take the right person with at the very least a background in the industry who could be brought in to learn the system for that company........IMHO, of course. I guess a better name would be long-term contract employee.
 
L

lydielu

#7
yes,we can

we company could meet your needs,but my company's headquarters located in USA, I can provide you it's address,contact and phone number if you think ok.
 
T

TheBigD

#8
If I have offended any consultants by my remarks, then I apologize. I was looking for assistance with the lack of qualified manpower to assist with upcoming product launches. It has been my experience that often launches increase the workload of the department two fold. There is more control required, and there is more clerical work required.
My realization is that PPAP submissions are unique to each company and to each new product. The methodology behind the submissions is not unique. It is laid out for all of us in AIAG manuals. Increased qualified personnel to perform the necessary inspections, gauge r&r, capability studys, material performance, dimensional results, and produce the reports for each.
I would rather have my internal staff taking care of the day to day business and improving the existing product, instead of performing the gauge r&r or creating the CMM program. Also, my qualified staff can be involved with the PFMEA, Control Plan, APQP etc instead.
Consultants have never offerred to assist me or my department with any performance of PPAP requirements. If they did, then I would have issued a PO# right then and there.

I just assumed that in this day and age of special services, that there would be a company out there to provide assistance.
 
J

jonny O

#9
Help TheBigD

TheBigD said:
If I have offended any consultants by my remarks, then I apologize. I was looking for assistance with the lack of qualified manpower to assist with upcoming product launches. It has been my experience that often launches increase the workload of the department two fold. There is more control required, and there is more clerical work required.
My realization is that PPAP submissions are unique to each company and to each new product. The methodology behind the submissions is not unique. It is laid out for all of us in AIAG manuals. Increased qualified personnel to perform the necessary inspections, gauge r&r, capability studys, material performance, dimensional results, and produce the reports for each.
I would rather have my internal staff taking care of the day to day business and improving the existing product, instead of performing the gauge r&r or creating the CMM program. Also, my qualified staff can be involved with the PFMEA, Control Plan, APQP etc instead.
Consultants have never offerred to assist me or my department with any performance of PPAP requirements. If they did, then I would have issued a PO# right then and there.

I just assumed that in this day and age of special services, that there would be a company out there to provide assistance.
The Big D

I don't know where in Canada you are but here are a couple of links for Southern Ontario that you will find interesting.

www.teppencorp.com
www.thesortingedge.com

Let me know how it goes.
 
#10
TheBigD said:
If I have offended any consultants by my remarks, then I apologize...
Jumping in here late, but, as a consultant, I find no offense. I will say this about outsourcing PPAPs. You must be careful about how much of the PPAP you outsource. You need to follow your customer's requirements, such as using regular production people, equipment, materials, etc. If you outsource activities that would normally be conducted by your regular production folks (including quality folks), you might get into a bind with your customer.
 
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