Outsourcing of PPAP - Why isn't there an outlet for the Quality Department?

A

ajmaden

#11
My company, Haldex Brake Products in Blue Springs MO has recently used a company that offers contract metrology services, PPAP, CMM work with really fast turnaround. They are - Precision Metrology Inspection, Tel: 913-227-0665 @ www.pminspect.com
 
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Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
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#12
This discussion as I see it is about outsourcing the minor part of the PPAP- the dimensional
As I see it the company is offering only part of the PPAP , that which is relevant for the dimensional and statistical part.
The question is are the companies offering these services actually registered to ISO 17025, if not then there is a problem with using an non registered external laboratory.

The PPAP is a collection of documents that show the design of the manufacturing process.
It is possible to get a consultant to help with the documents but the consultant, and I am one, should be part of the team that produces the FMEA and control plan, otherwise the exercise is purely secretarial.
 
R

Randy Stewart

#13
Howard,
Why is there an issue if the company is not ISO 17025? 17025 is for testing and calibration not really dimensional measurements and under 7.6.3.2 as long as the customer accepts the lab it is alright.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#14
Randy Stewart said:
Howard,
Why is there an issue if the company is not ISO 17025? 17025 is for testing and calibration not really dimensional measurements and under 7.6.3.2 as long as the customer accepts the lab it is alright.
17025 covers laboratories in general, and dimensional measurements are a form of testing. The clause you refer to stipulates that "customer approval" requires either assessment by the customer or 2nd party assessment "...that the laboratory meets the intent of ISO/IEC 17025 or national equivalent."
In practice, it's easier just to find an accredited lab, so Howard's advice is accurate except for the need for the external lab to be "registered."
 
W

wslabey

#15
TheBigD said:
If I have offended any consultants by my remarks, then I apologize. I was looking for assistance with the lack of qualified manpower to assist with upcoming product launches. It has been my experience that often launches increase the workload of the department two fold. There is more control required, and there is more clerical work required.
My realization is that PPAP submissions are unique to each company and to each new product. The methodology behind the submissions is not unique. It is laid out for all of us in AIAG manuals. Increased qualified personnel to perform the necessary inspections, gauge r&r, capability studys, material performance, dimensional results, and produce the reports for each.
I would rather have my internal staff taking care of the day to day business and improving the existing product, instead of performing the gauge r&r or creating the CMM program. Also, my qualified staff can be involved with the PFMEA, Control Plan, APQP etc instead.
Consultants have never offerred to assist me or my department with any performance of PPAP requirements. If they did, then I would have issued a PO# right then and there.

I just assumed that in this day and age of special services, that there would be a company out there to provide assistance.
No, you haven't insulted anybody or diminished their value. Good question.

There are firms that supply QE and Quality Assurance services for a fee. They specialize in working at suppliers or OEMs to help as "launch specialists" including preventive quality actions, appraisal, or dealing with quality containment actions should your customer place you on controlled shipping basis.

Where are you in Canada? There is a firm in Wixom, Michigan called AILS Corp that has a range of quality professionals available for any quality assignment you may have from supply base management to plant standardization including PPAP services They prefer contracts of a set term, but can also pull together emergency teams to help control escapes or spills. I have no association with them but maybe they can steer you to similar firms in your area. I don't want to put out too much more information because I don't want this to be perceived as promoting the firm.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#16
Randy Stewart said:
Howard,
Why is there an issue if the company is not ISO 17025? 17025 is for testing and calibration not really dimensional measurements and under 7.6.3.2 as long as the customer accepts the lab it is alright.
Here is the definition of laboratory according to TS 3.1.4
3.1.4
laboratory
facility for inspection, test or calibration that may include, but is not limited to, chemical, metallurgical, dimensional(my empasis),physical, electrical or reliability testing
As said
JSW05 said:
The clause you refer to stipulates that "customer approval" requires either assessment by the customer or 2nd party assessment "...that the laboratory meets the intent of ISO/IEC 17025 or national equivalent."
This means a document from the customer.
 
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