Packaged ISO Systems - Are canned policies and procedures worth it?

[AndyN]

Colpart is correct (as is Jim) although I'm not suprised that a college is using such templates. The down side is that they don't know any better!

As a guide you should always use a title of a person/function. Departments don't 'do' anything. If a departement is one person, it's not a department and if you have more people in a dpet. then who does what?

The CB auditor might well hold you non-compliant if you don't have an HR dept. They may just be trying to help you 'see' that your documented system isn't an accurate refelction of the org. So it needn't be a bad thing, but it's the best kind of 'help' they can give you. It would probably be found during the 'Stage 1' audit, so would allow you to 'fix' the issues, before they became a reportable (NC) later. However, it's not certain that all such siutations (from using cookie cutter templates) would be found, so why not fix them yourself.

I know you may be using a college for cost reasons, but you might save more in the long run if you find a btter experienced consultant!

 

[Desara01]

Fire your consultant. Anyone who would recommend such an approach for a company of your size doesn't know what they're doing.

 

[bobdoering]

Fire your consultant. Anyone who would recommend such an approach for a company of your size doesn't know what they're doing.

I actually pondered that comment for a moment - because back in the old days it was handy starting with a template. But, with the process approach, it is really less applicable. Besides, if he wanted to milk his contract, he would help you write the documentation.

Otherwise, don't give a hungry man a fish - show him how to fish.

 

[Wes Bucey]

See - I LIKE the fish/fishing metaphor, but even better:
"Light a candle; don't curse the dark!"

I'd like the opportunity to enlighten this "college" about a proper way to help a newbie company approach and implement ANY kind of Quality Management System, let alone one for ISO or AS.

Please send me a private message with the contact details for this college, especially the professor in charge of the program. I would like to help them get on the right track, not just for you, but for all present and future "beneficiaries" of help from the college.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Otherwise, don't give a hungry man a fish - show him how to fish.

See - I LIKE the fish/fishing metaphor, but even better:
"Light a candle; don't curse the dark!"

Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day; set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day; set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Right! For as long as that life lasts after being set on fire!

 

[JaneB]

with regard to the QMS how important are titles of responsibility through out the document? For instance, the template reads "The Quality Department is responsible for maintaining the quality manual", I would prefer it to read "The General Manager is responsible for maintaining the quality manual".

You are entirely right - please make that happen! Do not accept anything in your doco that refers to things that don't exist. How can people use a system when that doesn't make sense?

I do not know if when it comes time to be audited if the auditor will determine us not in compliance because we do not specifically have a "HR department”. I appreciate any input in advance.

I think any auditor might have cause for concern if the documentation presents a picture that isn't actually real and doesn't speak about your organisation and what you do and how. Just allowing someone to put in a canned set of P&Ps is not wise (and such things are generally not very useful nor used to put it very mildly).

 

[ISJOE9000]

I agree that the roles aren't important, as long as someone does it and the responsibility is clearly documented and executed. However, I'd only buy a document template package from someone who offers support as part of their package.

 

[Stijloor]

I agree that the roles aren't important, as long as someone does it and the responsibility is clearly documented and executed. However, I'd only buy a document template package from someone who offers support as part of their package.

Which I suspect you do?

Stijloor.

 

[AndyN]

Which I suspect you do?

Stijloor.

Appears so! I see that they offer a 36 page (ISO 9000) quality manual which addresses each of the ISO requirements - presumably perpetuating the myth of quality manuals which no-one reads or uses since it's written in ISOese..........