"Partial Buyout" Considerations for TS system - HELP

[SteelWoman]

Oh, my fellow Covers, I wonder if any of you can share your wisdom if you've ever been in a similar situation:

My company recently announced that they have sold a large portion (MOST) of this facility to a competitor. A few processing machines will remain with my current employer. We have just recently completed our upgrade audit to TS. At this writing, there's a possibility I may go to work for the "new guys" or I may remain working for my current employer - still up in the air. But I'm already thinking of the QMS-related issues that will occur with EITHER scenario I'm in charge of. So, a question for any of you who either have opinions on the topic or experience with it:

Here's the issue I'm pondering: Obviously the certificate to TS follows MY company and does not transfer to the new guys. But the scope will dramatically change, which will necessitate an overhaul of the system (ie, control plans that no longer apply, procedures that no longer apply, flow diagrams which have to change, etc). That's not really all that difficult, but IF I go to work for the new guys, the minute the changeover happens that part of the facility that they purchased is no longer certified to ANYTHING. My question is this: Can the new guys claim training records, calibration records, etc. from the company they purchased as a basis for what will become their new quality system, or must they start from ground zero and RE-train everyone, RE-calibrate everything, etc? This is a sticky situation, because the new guys have NOT been promised those records, but on the other hand the new guys will become a major supplier to my company!! So do you NOT help them out by handing them that stuff? If we don't hand off that stuff, does the new company ONLY have the choice of starting with ground zero on training, calibrations, records, etc? Can the new company claim they have completed a round of internal audits because the company they purchased had? Aaaaaagghhhhhh! My brain is too full - OVERLOAD, OVERLOAD! :mg:

Any wisdom? I'll sit here muttering to myself until someone replies, though I have to be careful who I mutter in front of - they may be my future employer!

 

[The Taz!]

First of all, take a DEEP Beath. . . remember. . . you are the Woman of Steel!

Second of all, as you would have to essentially obsolete process documentation in your current facility, the new owners will have to either adopt that same documentation (on their formats), or generate new documentation (Wasteful).

As far as the records go. . . Training records should follow the employee. Your company may want to maintain copies of employee records for legal purposes. IMHO. . . the displaced employees should however be trained in any differences between the two companies and QMS's. They will become a part of the new owner's QMS and processes.

Calibration records can be transferrer WITH the gages and equipment. The new company should add them to their current tracking system. No real need for re-calibrations unless they are out of calibration. The new owners should however, verify the gages and equipment after receipt to ensure no damage or alteration was done.

The new company will (should) contact the registrar IF this is a large departure from what they have been doing to start with and IF it changes their QMS significantly. If the business they bought is moved into their registered facility, the impact may be minimal.

You should contact your registrar IF the scope of your certification has changed. Customers may also need to be contacted.

If you or the new owners are doing automotive work for Ford, Ford will have to be notified about the acquisition. It is spelled out in the Ford CSR's.

Hope this is of some help.

 

[SteelWoman]

Taz, okay, I'm breathing "out with the bad, in with the good."

The new owners are not currently certified to ANYTHING, they have no QMS at all, even at their sister facility nearby. That either makes this easier, or harder, not sure which.

 

[The Taz!]

Easier for you. . . harder for them. If they intend to keep the automotive business, they will have to become certified to TS. QS would be a waste of time. You could carve a nice niche for yourself if you play your cards right.

What is their Corporate culture?? If you would, could you send me a PM with the new company's name? Just curious . . . I know a couple of companies in your neck of the woods and their MO.

 

[Sam]

Steel,
The scope for your present company may or may not change. Depends on whether or not the products you furnish have changed. Naturally your QMS will change. As a courtesy, you should notify your CB.
Calibration records can go to the new company. The only question I have with training records would be the date that people were trained. This would indicate training prior to establishing the new company. Some auditors may have a problem with this.

 

[Wes Bucey]

Steel,
The scope for your present company may or may not change. Depends on whether or not the products you furnish have changed. Naturally your QMS will change. As a courtesy, you should notify your CB.
Calibration records can go to the new company. The only question I have with training records would be the date that people were trained. This would indicate training prior to establishing the new company. Some auditors may have a problem with this.

Training date is probably immaterial - think of it as getting training from a third party. New company may want to institute a "competence" screening to ensure those trained are still competent. They could easily adopt the competence tests from the prior company and just give them again. In any regard - this would be an arguable point with any registrar.

 

[SteelMaiden]

Not sure exactly how they will do this all, are current employees just moving over to the new, or will they be interviewed and hired on to the new? If interviewed and hired on, I would say that some of the job competency evaluations would be done through recomendations etc. of the current company/supervisors/managers and interviews. I know the buyer and how they run their business (and hiring practices), so I am confident that they will make some sort of assessment of the current employees somewhere along the line. All will work out well, and if you go over to the buyer, you will be a wonderful asset to them. Good Luck!

 

[SteelWoman]

In any regard - this would be an arguable point with any registrar.

Yeah, it's the "iffy" feel of the training issue that worries me the most, then again one could argue I just like to worry, though with my JOB SECURITY in question it's not like I NEED to FIND something to worry about!!!!!!!!!

I don't have a good feel for the "culture" issue pointed out in another posting, and I do think that's an important factor. I haven't had the opportunity to really discuss it with anyone over there yet, so I'm just trying to consider "what if's" for either scenario. If I stay with "my company" then it's really not a big deal - if I go with the others, the training thing has to be dealt with pretty quickly, and I'm not 100% comfortable I could defend in an audit that all these people got training under the old employer and that should be fine. I think the "new" company would have to do at least some baseline training within their OWN developing QMS.

By the way, I haven't seen a reply to the audit question - can the new company say to a registrar that yes, they completed a full round of TS internal audits because the old company did, when it was theirs?

 

[SteelMaiden]

By the way, I haven't seen a reply to the audit question - can the new company say to a registrar that yes, they completed a full round of TS internal audits because the old company did, when it was theirs?

I would say that if a company was bought out in its entirety, maintaining most of its operating personnel, qms, production etc., you would be able to fairly easily transfer the certificate with a "surveillance" type of audit. But, in the case of a partial buyout things would be a little more muddled??? If your "bought out" portion was going to operate as a division with autonomy, you could possibly use the audits, if you have the records, and you don't significantly change operations, but, your scope is probably going to be way different, so I am not sure. If you are going to actually become a part of the "sister" division that already exists, your audits are probably a moot point if they haven't completed their schedule?

Wow, that all sounds like I'm sitting on the fence, doesn't it?

good luck!

 

[The Taz!]

Wow, that all sounds like I'm sitting on the fence, doesn't it?

Hope it's not a picket fence and you have a comfy pillow!