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Performing PPAP Retroactively

K

kartbrown

#1
We are working on an assembly for the interior of a comercial truck. We require our customers to provide a PPAP. We are in need of a Tinnerman clip for the assembly, but we will only need 2K pieces. To order them through Tinnerman, we need to order something like 150K pieces. I have found the parts at one of their distributors, but I am having trouble getting them to PPAP the parts. They say the parts were manufactured in 2008 and they are not able to get a PPAP retroactively. They supplied samples of the clips and on the invoice, they have the lot number of the parts. I am thinking that if they have the lot number, they maybe able to get the necessary information to do a PPAP, but I am new to this and not really familiar with the PPAP process. Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
We are working on an assembly for the interior of a comercial truck. We require our customers to provide a PPAP. We are in need of a Tinnerman clip for the assembly, but we will only need 2K pieces. To order them through Tinnerman, we need to order something like 150K pieces. I have found the parts at one of their distributors, but I am having trouble getting them to PPAP the parts. They say the parts were manufactured in 2008 and they are not able to get a PPAP retroactively. They supplied samples of the clips and on the invoice, they have the lot number of the parts. I am thinking that if they have the lot number, they maybe able to get the necessary information to do a PPAP, but I am new to this and not really familiar with the PPAP process. Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
Welcome to the Cove. :D

Assuming that you have a customer specification for a specific Tinnerman part number ("Tinnerman," like "Pem," is sometimes used generically) and not an individual dimensioned drawing of a cage nut, you probably don't need a PPAP submission from the manufacturer. It depends on what your customer expects, but as far as catalog parts and distributors are concerned, a warrant from the distributor might be all that's required. Ask your customer.
 
K

kartbrown

#3
Thanks for welcoming me and for your input.

Here is a little more background.

The part is specifically called out on their assembly drawing by the Tinnerman part number. They also provided us a drawing of the actual clip. This particular customer is extremely specific and picky. We can not use an equivalent product from another supplier without convincing their engineers to change their drawings (not an easy task).

We are required by the customer to provide a level 3 PPAP for all of the components that are used in the assemblies.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Thanks for welcoming me and for your input.

Here is a little more background.

The part is specifically called out on their assembly drawing by the Tinnerman part number. They also provided us a drawing of the actual clip. This particular customer is extremely specific and picky. We can not use an equivalent product from another supplier without convincing their engineers to change their drawings (not an easy task).

We are required by the customer to provide a level 3 PPAP for all of the components that are used in the assemblies.
Jim Wynne already stated: "Ask your customer." PPAPs, their specific content, submissions and details need to be discussed and agreed upon prior to engaging in a contract. Don't hesitate to discuss your current predicament with the "authorized customer representative." Automotive suppliers are often hesitant to do this, but if you don't, it will come to bite you in the behind. :mg:

Stijloor.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#5
Thanks for welcoming me and for your input.

Here is a little more background.

The part is specifically called out on their assembly drawing by the Tinnerman part number. They also provided us a drawing of the actual clip. This particular customer is extremely specific and picky. We can not use an equivalent product from another supplier without convincing their engineers to change their drawings (not an easy task).

We are required by the customer to provide a level 3 PPAP for all of the components that are used in the assemblies.
Asking for a Level 3 PPAP for a catalog part makes no sense. The only sensible thing to do at this point is to explain the situation to the customer and ask for guidance or forbearance.
 
K

kartbrown

#6
Ok. Thanks for everyone's help. I will get with the customer to see what we can do, however, can the following question be answered?

Can a part that was made in 2008 be PPAPed if we have the lot number and Tinnerman can provide the necessary documentation?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#7
Ok. Thanks for everyone's help. I will get with the customer to see what we can do, however, can the following question be answered?

Can a part that was made in 2008 be PPAPed if we have the lot number and Tinnerman can provide the necessary documentation?
Your customer might have a requirement with regard to the age of PPAP data. With some, data more than 12 months old isn't considered acceptable. This would apply primarily to material and performance test reports and dimensional reports.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
kartbrown,

While the customer is in its right to set the PPAP expectations, often the customer's requester does not always have a good understanding of PPAP either. I am sure you know about "the blind leading the blind" story. PPAP level 3 is a default requirement that does not always makes sense depending on the automotive supplier's operations. Yep; as Jim and I stated, time to contact the customer and see if you can come to an amicable solution. But before you do...make sure that you know and understand the PPAP "rule book" as it applies to your operation. Good luck!

Stijloor.
 
Last edited:
K

kartbrown

#9
:thanx:

Thanks. I was not sure if there was a time frame. It looks like the old information might be useless. I was afraid of that. Thanks for all of your help! I appreciate Jim and Stijloor sharing their knowledge and experience with me. I am not familiar with the whole ISO and PPAP requirements. I started my current position in late December and did not have do deal with it previously.

Looks like I will be going back to my customer to see what we can work out.
 
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