Permissible Exclusions - ISO 9001

[Madfox]

Re: Need an opinion on Permissible Exclusions.

OK....
a) Without posting any names, what "ISO consulting company" has the most clients. (My guess is that it's based in Michigan.) Hmmm...

b) My opinion regarding the use of the standard and 9004 itself as a "guide" to certification is based upon:
1)experience. I've reviewed over 1,000 RFQ's; it was not uncommon to see the applicant apply for exclusion of 7.5 because, "we don't provide service." (Actual quote. One of these RFQ requests for exclusion of 7.5 was made with the approval of a "consultant!" So their QMS was in idle, awaiting a cert assessment!)
2)demographics. Manufacturing accounts for a small piece of the American economy. Drop off a copy at your local IT or realty company, come back in a couple of days, and ask them their viewpoint.

Regarding your comment as to accuracy and passion. I once met a bond fund manager and asked him why he was successful. He responded, "What truly makes Michael Jordan great? It's his passion for the game. You gotta have a passion for what you do."

So, your opinion regarding the competency of consultants is based upon what data? Gees, RABQSA is questioning the compentency of the auditors it certified!

The Madfox

 

[RoxaneB]

Re: Permissible Exclusions - ISO9001 - Need an opinion

Before this thread degenerates into consultant- and accrediation board-bashing, can we please remember the intent of the original poster?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Paul Simpson]

Re: Permissible Exclusions - ISO9001 - Need an opinion

Before this thread degenerates into consultant- and accrediation board-bashing, can we please remember the intent of the original poster?

Thank you kindly.

Spot on, Roxanne. The question is about permissible exclusions - it doesn't matter if it's the consultant that says it's permissible or you make your own mind up.

The point is that the only permissible exclusions are the things you don't do.
So let's be absolutely clear ... if you don't design it is a permissible exclusion.... if you don't have measuring equipment then 7.6 is a permissible exclusion etc., etc., etc.

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: Need an opinion on Permissible Exclusions.

OK....
a) Without posting any names, what "ISO consulting company" has the most clients. (My guess is that it's based in Michigan.) Hmmm...

b) My opinion regarding the use of the standard and 9004 itself as a "guide" to certification is based upon:
1)experience. I've reviewed over 1,000 RFQ's; it was not uncommon to see the applicant apply for exclusion of 7.5 because, "we don't provide service." (Actual quote. One of these RFQ requests for exclusion of 7.5 was made with the approval of a "consultant!" So their QMS was in idle, awaiting a cert assessment!)
2)demographics. Manufacturing accounts for a small piece of the American economy. Drop off a copy at your local IT or realty company, come back in a couple of days, and ask them their viewpoint.

Regarding your comment as to accuracy and passion. I once met a bond fund manager and asked him why he was successful. He responded, "What truly makes Michael Jordan great? It's his passion for the game. You gotta have a passion for what you do."

So, your opinion regarding the competency of consultants is based upon what data? Gees, RABQSA is questioning the compentency of the auditors it certified!

The Madfox

Not trying to get into a running debate with you, my friend. I was just offering a second opinion.

I am nothing, if not passionate. I think that is clear on this forum, it certainly is clear with my customers. I even include that in training with managers. We need to have passion. It is the energy that drives this. However, opinions can be passionately wrong. We need to incorporate accuracy as well.

If you review my previous comment, I said every industry has god and not so good consultants. We have to be selective as to which doctor we use. Early in my career, I had to try 5 accountants before I finally found a good one. But, I still use doctors and accountants. Even though I know a lot about health and accounting, they are specialists and it would be foolish to ignore them and just try to do it all myself. Even if I could, they bring insight that is worth the fees they charge.

I tell my clients that my fees will not cost them anything. If they go through the program, I will even guarantee the net effect will be it makes them money, they will not be out of pocket.

There are good consultants, but not all consultants are good. There are many Quality Managers, many are good, but not all. But, we don't dismiss them all. That is not fair.

By definition, at least 33-49% of each are above average...

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Need an opinion on Permissible Exclusions.

If you review my previous comment, I said every industry has god and not so good consultants.

Sometimes the typos appear to be Freudian

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Re: Need an opinion on Permissible Exclusions.

Sometimes the typos appear to be Freudian

Good catch...um...oops...

I don't think I am even to the guru level, yet, so that ("god") might be reaching a little higher than I want to go.

I won't correct the typo. I'll leave it for the humor value...

 

[gpainter]

Re: Permissible Exclusions - ISO9001 - Need an opinion

We worked from prints and this is what we put in our QM
xxxxx Customers are responsible for the control and verification of the design and development of their product and 7.3 is therefore excluded. Just make sure that your prints are in good order,current and addressed in the CSP section

 

[Madfox]

Re: Permissible Exclusions - ISO9001 - Need an opinion

Everyone's correct, didn't mean to get off course.

This subject was recently covered in another thread. It's the registrar's tech manager who makes the call regarding exclusion, so the opinion of the management rep, consultant, and third-party auditor can be moot.
To the OP I recommend you get the tech manager's approval of exclusion, in writing, prior to the audit.

The Madfox

 

[dhaval_amd]

Re: Permissible Exclusions - ISO9001 - Need an opinion

HI
U can directly ask for exclusion in your quality manual under section "Design and development" ;you have to mention under the "scope" of qulaity manual that you r excluding the design part(write clause no.) as you are not designing anything on your own & it is as per cust specs
Remember that appropriate justification is a must

Hello everyone,

I work for a small CNC machining company and am responsible for our implementation of ISO 9001: 2000. We do not "design" any of the products we produce. The items that we produce come from blueprints that are provided by our customers. At no point in the job (item that we manufacture) are we allowed to stray from the blueprint. Therefore, I feel that we should write a "Permissible Exclusion" for the design and development section of the standard.

My question is: Knowing that, would that be allowed? AND, how do you go about writing an exclusion for that?

I appreciate any response! And apologize in advance for seeming clueless. :truce:

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Permissible Exclusions - ISO9001 - Need an opinion

HI
U can directly ask for exclusion in your quality manual under section "Design and development" ;

It does not make any sense for the quality manual to have a section for something that is not applicable. The minimum requirements of a quality manual are listed in paragraph 4.2.2 of ISO 9001