Personal names in docs - Goes against every documenation practice I know!

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#21
If the procedure says ?Joe Blow? or ?the Quality Engineer? ?shall perform? or ?is responsible for? (whatever activity), and no alternate is listed, our AS9100 auditor would never accept it if Jane Doe did the work, even if Jane was Joe?s (or the QE?s) boss/manager/supervisor. It would be a finding. I am sure of it.

Maybe you don?t see it as a big deal, but I am sure our auditor would.

JMO - YMMV
 
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hogheavenfarm

Quite Involved in Discussions
#22
So the idea here is to always leave a bit of 'wiggle room' in ANY written procedure. I have gone back and 'wiggle-ized' many of ours due to the same reason. There is nothing wrong with using an "either/or" approach, like "John Smith shall perform X" but add that "this can also be performed by the dept. head", or "an authorized management staff" or some such nebulous group in the event that "John Smith" is unavailable. Key wiggle words I use are "if required", "as needed", etc.
 
N

Norml1

#24
Accountability comes not from names or job titles on forms but from supervisors, managers and directors monitoring processes and personally showing their commitment to the requirements.
I agree with John's statement above. Using actual names in documents is not professional. There is enough work trying to update and revise documents without changing names. Even if you take that out of the equation, it just draws attention and raises questions during an audit. I would also make the process engineer sign off on that document. :whip:
 

WCHorn

Rubber, Too Glamorous?
Trusted Information Resource
#25
So the idea here is to always leave a bit of 'wiggle room' in ANY written procedure.
Here is a link to an article about leaving yourself a little wiggle room by carefully using words and phrases that provide more latitude. It does not address the original post, but is pertinent to this one. Regarding putting names in instructions and procedures, it's not a good practice. It results in significant work to keep those documents up to date. Job titles are preferred, but even then you have to make sure you update documents as titles change and new positions are added.
 

Golfman25

Trusted Information Resource
#26
Here is a link to an article about leaving yourself a little wiggle room by carefully using words and phrases that provide more latitude. It does not address the original post, but is pertinent to this one. Regarding putting names in instructions and procedures, it's not a good practice. It results in significant work to keep those documents up to date. Job titles are preferred, but even then you have to make sure you update documents as titles change and new positions are added.
Is this not absurd? We try to give some structure to our process. But if we give too much structure, we get pinched in an "audit." So we use all these "wiggle" phrases to keep from getting pinched. None of it is substantive. And we wonder why people roll their eyes when told "we are going ISO."
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#27
Accountability comes not from names or job titles on forms but from supervisors, managers and directors monitoring processes and personally showing their commitment to the requirements.
Show all the commitment you want, but if the "committed" person doing the work is not authorized to do it based on YOUR OWN procedures, you have a finding just waiting to be written.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#28
My preference is to use generic titles throughout the documentation, such as calibration lead, line lead, purchasing lead, etc. Then have one document that is a cross-reference of the actual people who are wearing those hats currently. Very handy when you work in an organization where people wear many hats, and the hats change depending on workload, hiring, etc. The generic titles need not match actual person's title.

This approach minimizes the overhead of constantly changing documents for the sake of changing responsibilities.
 

Mark Meer

Trusted Information Resource
#29
If the procedure says ?Joe Blow? or ?the Quality Engineer? ?shall perform? or ?is responsible for? (whatever activity)...
"Is responsible for" and "shall perform", in my mind are two completely different statements. One allows for the "wiggle room" other posters are suggesting, the other does not.
In the former case ("is responsible"), I don't see an issue with tasks being delegated in the event of the person's absence (or for any other reason for that matter...). Ultimately it is the person responsible who is accountable for the work in the end.

Is this not absurd? We try to give some structure to our process. But if we give too much structure, we get pinched in an "audit." So we use all these "wiggle" phrases to keep from getting pinched.
:lol: ...it's funny because it's true...
 

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#30
Show all the commitment you want, but if the "committed" person doing the work is not authorized to do it based on YOUR OWN procedures, you have a finding just waiting to be written.
Mike,

Yes, sufficient authority delegated to the people doing the work is an essential resource.

But the people authorized to do the work must also care about fulfilling the requirements.

Leaders, including master craftspeople, showing they care about the requirements helps everyone prevent nonconformity.

John
 
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